Comments on: Secular v. sectarian Christmas displays: What is the obligation of public schools to be welcoming? http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html Technology, leadership, and the future of schools Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:42:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: SHOWROOM: LED FIREWORK LIGHT | Outdoor Icicle Lights http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html/comment-page-1#comment-20226 SHOWROOM: LED FIREWORK LIGHT | Outdoor Icicle Lights Wed, 02 Jun 2010 06:09:09 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html#comment-20226 [...] Secular v. sectarian Christmas displays: What is the obligation of public schools to be welcoming? |... [...] [...] Secular v. sectarian Christmas displays: What is the obligation of public schools to be welcoming? |… [...]

]]> By: Chris http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html/comment-page-1#comment-9422 Chris Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html#comment-9422 I appreciate your voicing this concern, Scott. In the public school where I work in Minnesota we don't celebrate any holidays. The library displays books about all the holidays our students celebrate throughout the year in their homes and classroom teachers moderate conversations with their students recognizing the importance of cultural heritage and practice. I have never understood why public schools would think it necessary to contribute to the commercialization of so called Christian holidays like Christmas and Easter. Thanks for keeping the conversation in the forefront. I appreciate your voicing this concern, Scott. In the public school where I work in Minnesota we don’t celebrate any holidays. The library displays books about all the holidays our students celebrate throughout the year in their homes and classroom teachers moderate conversations with their students recognizing the importance of cultural heritage and practice.

I have never understood why public schools would think it necessary to contribute to the commercialization of so called Christian holidays like Christmas and Easter.
Thanks for keeping the conversation in the forefront.

]]> By: Jerry Moore http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html/comment-page-1#comment-9421 Jerry Moore Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html#comment-9421 The core assumption that is flawed in all the comments is that SCHOOL must be a PLACE. Increasingly, school is not a single place, as Scott has pointed out in "School is no longer constrained to how far the bus can travel in the morning." As school expands to near infinite places, becoming a virtual reality, respect and welcoming will be where you choose to go looking for it. The displays you see will be the ones you click on. The holidays students celebrate and take off will be the ones they choose. The problem of what message to send when dealing with captive audiences is a 20th century problem--at least it should be. The core assumption that is flawed in all the comments is that SCHOOL must be a PLACE. Increasingly, school is not a single place, as Scott has pointed out in “School is no longer constrained to how far the bus can travel in the morning.” As school expands to near infinite places, becoming a virtual reality, respect and welcoming will be where you choose to go looking for it. The displays you see will be the ones you click on. The holidays students celebrate and take off will be the ones they choose. The problem of what message to send when dealing with captive audiences is a 20th century problem–at least it should be.

]]> By: Marshall http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html/comment-page-1#comment-9419 Marshall Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html#comment-9419 Steve, Dave, and Teach_J say it eloquently and with clarity. Respecting the beliefs of all does not mean we have to physically create individual demonstrations of that respect and recognition. We do, however, have a responsibility to support the fact that we all believe differently - even within the various belief systems. If we ignore our differences, we ignore our strengths. Steve, Dave, and Teach_J say it eloquently and with clarity. Respecting the beliefs of all does not mean we have to physically create individual demonstrations of that respect and recognition. We do, however, have a responsibility to support the fact that we all believe differently – even within the various belief systems.

If we ignore our differences, we ignore our strengths.

]]> By: Scott McLeod http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html/comment-page-1#comment-9420 Scott McLeod Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html#comment-9420 @Marshall: Sorry, I don't buy it. If you don't ACT upon the supposed respect that you have by EXPLICITLY and VISIBLY recognizing other holidays besides sectarian Christmas, it's all a sham because the non-Christian kid who walks in the door never sees anything of hers. She only sees what is of others. Explicit recognition of only one, and implicit recognition of others, doesn't cut it for that kid. @Mike: I am extremely empathetic to your comment. @Marshall: Sorry, I don’t buy it. If you don’t ACT upon the supposed respect that you have by EXPLICITLY and VISIBLY recognizing other holidays besides sectarian Christmas, it’s all a sham because the non-Christian kid who walks in the door never sees anything of hers. She only sees what is of others. Explicit recognition of only one, and implicit recognition of others, doesn’t cut it for that kid.

@Mike: I am extremely empathetic to your comment.

]]> By: Jason http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html/comment-page-1#comment-9416 Jason Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html#comment-9416 @Teach_J Full disclosure: Atheist. Always have been. I might have lost you already but stay with me. So..I don't know how to say this in a PC way..but nobody is really concerned about offending Christians in the same way that nobody is really concerned about defending white males (by nobody, I mean, people not included in the aforementioned groups). If you're Christian, you hold the power in the country. If you're a white male (don't even think that Obama is a sufficient counter-argument) you hold the power in the country. We don't worry about protecting the rights of those that are in power. We don't make laws to protect the king. We make laws to protect the people from the king. Think about the controversies we see in schools. Christmas vs. everything else. Creationism vs. Evolution. Abstinence-only vs. sex education. Gay rights (teachers and students). Prayer in school. Pledge of allegiance. These are rooted in Christian vs. everybody else. Nobody needs to worry about those in power. It's the rest of us that should be protected. @Teach_J

Full disclosure: Atheist. Always have been. I might have lost you already but stay with me.

So..I don’t know how to say this in a PC way..but nobody is really concerned about offending Christians in the same way that nobody is really concerned about defending white males (by nobody, I mean, people not included in the aforementioned groups).

If you’re Christian, you hold the power in the country. If you’re a white male (don’t even think that Obama is a sufficient counter-argument) you hold the power in the country. We don’t worry about protecting the rights of those that are in power. We don’t make laws to protect the king. We make laws to protect the people from the king.

Think about the controversies we see in schools. Christmas vs. everything else. Creationism vs. Evolution. Abstinence-only vs. sex education. Gay rights (teachers and students). Prayer in school. Pledge of allegiance. These are rooted in Christian vs. everybody else.

Nobody needs to worry about those in power. It’s the rest of us that should be protected.

]]> By: Steven Hopper http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html/comment-page-1#comment-9417 Steven Hopper Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html#comment-9417 This is exactly what I wanted to express, only better said. This is exactly what I wanted to express, only better said.

]]> By: Mike http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html/comment-page-1#comment-9418 Mike Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html#comment-9418 You know, here's my issue with the whole inclusiveness thing: I find it hard to implement in the trenches with my kids. Most often, I find that inclusiveness 'initiatives', for lack of a better word, come from school administrators who understand your point of view and choose to put their school on a better path toward respect for all perspectives around the holidays. That's fine. Inadvertently, though, they put teachers in a tough spot: if a teacher is even remotely familiar with the many celebrations that occur in December and January, they have a much better base of knowledge with which to be inclusive than a teacher (like me) who doesn't necessarily have that knowledge. In order to find that knowledge, I had to do research this year when my principal sent a memo (with content similar to yours) urging teachers to decorate with an eye to inclusiveness for the holidays. I found my ability to do this remarkably inadequate, considering that I am an agnostic who doesn't really have much of a holiday spirit. I think that if we really want to be inclusive, making it happen on an administrative level is only the first step. Faculty and staff (and administrators, too) need some <b>professional development</b> that gets them to think about what this inclusiveness actually looks like. Otherwise, mark my words, you will just get teachers who resort to buying Festivus Poles for their classrooms. You know, here’s my issue with the whole inclusiveness thing: I find it hard to implement in the trenches with my kids. Most often, I find that inclusiveness ‘initiatives’, for lack of a better word, come from school administrators who understand your point of view and choose to put their school on a better path toward respect for all perspectives around the holidays. That’s fine.

Inadvertently, though, they put teachers in a tough spot: if a teacher is even remotely familiar with the many celebrations that occur in December and January, they have a much better base of knowledge with which to be inclusive than a teacher (like me) who doesn’t necessarily have that knowledge. In order to find that knowledge, I had to do research this year when my principal sent a memo (with content similar to yours) urging teachers to decorate with an eye to inclusiveness for the holidays. I found my ability to do this remarkably inadequate, considering that I am an agnostic who doesn’t really have much of a holiday spirit.

I think that if we really want to be inclusive, making it happen on an administrative level is only the first step. Faculty and staff (and administrators, too) need some professional development that gets them to think about what this inclusiveness actually looks like. Otherwise, mark my words, you will just get teachers who resort to buying Festivus Poles for their classrooms.

]]> By: Betsy http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html/comment-page-1#comment-9425 Betsy Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html#comment-9425 This is very disheartening. I love Christmas and everything that goes with it. But to Focus simply on the secular sides of it is just not what it's about. Some people do not believe in a Santa. Or maybe they just celebrate it in a different way. I believe that a religious Christmas should not be shunned. If students and their families celebrate different holidays than Christmas at Christmastime, then they should be allowed to show their holiday spirit too. The comercial side of Christmas is not the problem here, though. It is simply that the religious side of Christmas is being locked away in some box, and where is the freedom of religion in that? Also, that the Iowa Department of Education would stoop so low as to make such a snide comment about the New Testament, I can hardly retain respect for them. Who wrote that anyway? It seems as though someone with a middle school countenance and maturity. Honestly, that is an attack against Christian viewpoints, not simply a "you can excuse yourself if you wish to not be a part of this." I am highly disappointed in this as a christian, a U.S. citizen, and as a future educator. This is very disheartening. I love Christmas and everything that goes with it. But to Focus simply on the secular sides of it is just not what it’s about. Some people do not believe in a Santa. Or maybe they just celebrate it in a different way. I believe that a religious Christmas should not be shunned. If students and their families celebrate different holidays than Christmas at Christmastime, then they should be allowed to show their holiday spirit too. The comercial side of Christmas is not the problem here, though. It is simply that the religious side of Christmas is being locked away in some box, and where is the freedom of religion in that? Also, that the Iowa Department of Education would stoop so low as to make such a snide comment about the New Testament, I can hardly retain respect for them. Who wrote that anyway? It seems as though someone with a middle school countenance and maturity. Honestly, that is an attack against Christian viewpoints, not simply a “you can excuse yourself if you wish to not be a part of this.” I am highly disappointed in this as a christian, a U.S. citizen, and as a future educator.

]]> By: Tina http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html/comment-page-1#comment-9426 Tina Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/12/secular-v-sectarian-christmas-displays-what-is-the-obligation-of-public-schools-to-be-welcoming.html#comment-9426 @Scott ? The discussion point of my comment was as stated...I agree with the idea of showing respect and recognition but...making that decision (who decides which holidays are worthy of recognizing and respecting?Are they different from state to state? )seems about as hypacritcal as selecting one holiday. Why is it NOT hypacritical for a teacher, administrator, curriculum director,or superintendent, to decide that the following holiday events are worthy to be included in a school environment. If you are looking at inclusiveness I guarantee that you will be excluding some religious/non-religious event or holiday. It is not possible to include every belief that every student has or is practicing, the list is endless and new beliefs are created daily. So are we talking about the obligation of the public schools to be welcoming? Yes as much as possible, but to what extent? If an elementary child believes in Christianity and when he/she is involved in school activities does not see any sign of the holiday CHRISTMAS...is that unwelcoming to that child...you bet it is. Including and Excluding does not equal WELCOME. So what do I say for ... local imagination and creativity... that would deal with this topic? I have always used the arts to welcome discussion and awareness. Students can and do express their religious and cultural beliefs through drawings, paintings, music, and dance. It is the perfect place to discuss and celebrate differences and similarities. It is also included in the curriculum. With the students initiating their own ideas and teachers guiding the learning everyone feels welcome and no one feels excluded. And of course display the artwork and enjoy the music and dance with a school events. @Scott ? The discussion point of my comment was as stated…I agree with the idea of
showing respect and recognition but…making that decision (who decides which
holidays are worthy of recognizing and respecting?Are they different from state
to state? )seems about as hypacritcal as selecting one holiday. Why is it NOT hypacritical for a teacher, administrator, curriculum director,or superintendent, to decide that the following holiday events are worthy to be included in a school environment. If you are looking at inclusiveness I guarantee that you will be excluding some religious/non-religious event or holiday. It is not possible to include every belief that every student has or is practicing, the list is endless and new beliefs are created daily. So are we talking about the obligation of the public schools to be welcoming? Yes as much as possible, but to what extent? If an elementary child believes in Christianity and when he/she is involved in school activities does not see any sign of the holiday CHRISTMAS…is that unwelcoming to that child…you bet it is. Including and Excluding does not equal WELCOME. So what do I say for … local imagination and creativity… that would deal with this topic? I have always used the arts to welcome discussion and awareness. Students can and do express their religious and cultural beliefs through drawings, paintings, music, and dance. It is the perfect place to discuss and celebrate differences and similarities. It is also included in the curriculum. With the students initiating their own ideas and teachers guiding the learning everyone feels welcome and no one feels excluded. And of course display the artwork and enjoy the music and dance with a school events.

]]>