Comments on: Book Review – Education and Learning to Think http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html Technology, leadership, and the future of schools Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:42:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Cory Sheldahl http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html/comment-page-1#comment-10034 Cory Sheldahl Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html#comment-10034 Roger, I couldn't agree more! I'm a part time math teacher, but they managed to sandwich my schedule to keep me there a minimum of 6 hours! I was supposed to use my "free" time to work on things like my masters class, but find I am preparing for classes to make sure they master the test questions. Sometimes I think teaching to the test is a valid argument, but it is up to an effective teacher (to a point) to teach standards so that they can pass any test, (however slim it may be!). Roger, I couldn’t agree more! I’m a part time math teacher, but they managed to sandwich my schedule to keep me there a minimum of 6 hours! I was supposed to use my “free” time to work on things like my masters class, but find I am preparing for classes to make sure they master the test questions. Sometimes I think teaching to the test is a valid argument, but it is up to an effective teacher (to a point) to teach standards so that they can pass any test, (however slim it may be!).

]]> By: Nancy Nebeker http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html/comment-page-1#comment-10035 Nancy Nebeker Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html#comment-10035 Scott This is interesting food for thought. It is too rare in schools that we take time to examine the underpinnings of what we strive to do every day. I believe "it IS a challenge to develop educational programs that assume all individuals, not just an elite, can become competent thinkers". Perhaps it is that we are too busy developing tests that we hope will document our achievement as educators rather than the competent thinking skills of our students. Granted the latter would be harder to do. Scott

This is interesting food for thought. It is too rare in schools that we take time to examine the underpinnings of what we strive to do every day. I believe “it IS a challenge to develop educational programs that assume all individuals, not just an elite, can become competent thinkers”. Perhaps it is that we are too busy developing tests that we hope will document our achievement as educators rather than the competent thinking skills of our students. Granted the latter would be harder to do.

]]> By: Stephan Hughes http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html/comment-page-1#comment-10032 Stephan Hughes Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html#comment-10032 I see Roger and Stephanie's point about the emphasis on tests and testing. But why not revamp the tests in their format to facilitate higher order thinking? I see Roger and Stephanie’s point about the emphasis on tests and testing. But why not revamp the tests in their format to facilitate higher order thinking?

]]> By: Wayne A. http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html/comment-page-1#comment-10033 Wayne A. Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html#comment-10033 It is mentioned above in the quote from the book, Education and Learning to Think, published by the National Research Council that “Higher order thinking involves imposing meaning, finding structure in apparent disorder.” This is very true in many situations. I would like to add that I have seen occasions where people try to assign some kind of meaning to situations that are really coincidental and not part of some larger pattern or coordinated effort. I would propose that higher order thinking includes the ability to discern when events or conditions may indeed be part of a larger structure and when they are simply a coincidence. And equally important is to be able to hesitate in making a conclusion when there is not enough information. A more careful analytical approach would have benefits in politics and environmental planning. It is mentioned above in the quote from the book, Education and Learning to Think, published by the National Research Council that “Higher order thinking involves imposing meaning, finding structure in apparent disorder.” This is very true in many situations. I would like to add that I have seen occasions where people try to assign some kind of meaning to situations that are really coincidental and not part of some larger pattern or coordinated effort. I would propose that higher order thinking includes the ability to discern when events or conditions may indeed be part of a larger structure and when they are simply a coincidence. And equally important is to be able to hesitate in making a conclusion when there is not enough information. A more careful analytical approach would have benefits in politics and environmental planning.

]]> By: Stephanie Sandifer http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html/comment-page-1#comment-10025 Stephanie Sandifer Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html#comment-10025 Based on my experience on campuses I would say that many of these items are missing. The phrase "higher-order thinking" is used frequently by administrators and educators in my district -- but what they often mean and look for is not what is listed above. I wish this is what we mean when we say we want "higher-order thinking" in the classroom, but too often the descriptors listed above are in conflict with what is required on the standardized high-stakes tests that have sadly become our profession's "bottom-line." Based on my experience on campuses I would say that many of these items are missing. The phrase “higher-order thinking” is used frequently by administrators and educators in my district — but what they often mean and look for is not what is listed above.

I wish this is what we mean when we say we want “higher-order thinking” in the classroom, but too often the descriptors listed above are in conflict with what is required on the standardized high-stakes tests that have sadly become our profession’s “bottom-line.”

]]> By: Dennis Richards http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html/comment-page-1#comment-10026 Dennis Richards Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html#comment-10026 I agree with you, Scott; I think this quote is the rub for the future of education and learning! "Higher order thinking involves self-regulation of the thinking process. We do not recognize higher order thinking in an individual when someone else “calls the plays” at every step." I read a book this summer that analyzes this very issue incredibly well ~ Alfie Kohn, Beyond Discipline: From Compliance to Community, 10th anniversary edition. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/kksm45" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/kksm45</a> Guess we missed the importance of the message when it was first published! Maybe this time it can influence how we think and behave. I'm a certainly a convert. I've come to believe that almost everything we do in schools to adults is about requiring compliance. Read a policy manual, hundreds of pages of what we expect of adults. Ugh! That's why we have contracts and unions. Lack of trust is built into the game, The Prisoner's Dilemma. It's no wonder that Kohn could write a book that shows how almost everything we do to kids is about compliance. We can't miss his analysis. If we do miss it, none of the discussion regarding pedagogy and technology in the world is going to save us from ourselves. However, if our cultures of compliance can change to cultures of collaborative communities, Oh, the Places You'll Go! But we all know how big an IF it is. Regards, Dennis I agree with you, Scott; I think this quote is the rub for the future of education and learning!

“Higher order thinking involves self-regulation of the thinking process. We do not recognize higher order thinking in an individual when someone else “calls the plays” at every step.”

I read a book this summer that analyzes this very issue incredibly well ~ Alfie Kohn, Beyond Discipline: From Compliance to Community, 10th anniversary edition. http://tinyurl.com/kksm45

Guess we missed the importance of the message when it was first published! Maybe this time it can influence how we think and behave.

I’m a certainly a convert. I’ve come to believe that almost everything we do in schools to adults is about requiring compliance. Read a policy manual, hundreds of pages of what we expect of adults. Ugh! That’s why we have contracts and unions. Lack of trust is built into the game, The Prisoner’s Dilemma.

It’s no wonder that Kohn could write a book that shows how almost everything we do to kids is about compliance. We can’t miss his analysis.

If we do miss it, none of the discussion regarding pedagogy and technology in the world is going to save us from ourselves.

However, if our cultures of compliance can change to cultures of collaborative communities, Oh, the Places You’ll Go! But we all know how big an IF it is.

Regards,

Dennis

]]> By: Andrew B. Watt http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html/comment-page-1#comment-10031 Andrew B. Watt Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html#comment-10031 I put this whole post into my blog, so I can find it again easily, and added some commentary of my own after each item in the list. I think you're right on target, though. I put this whole post into my blog, so I can find it again easily, and added some commentary of my own after each item in the list.

I think you’re right on target, though.

]]> By: Subhashita Manjari http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html/comment-page-1#comment-10030 Subhashita Manjari Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html#comment-10030 "It can't be taken away by thieves. It can't be forcibly snatched by the kings. It can not be divided among brothers. It multiplies even when spent. Such is the wealth of knowledge, aptly the best among all." - A Sanskrit Saying “It can’t be taken away by thieves.
It can’t be forcibly snatched by the kings.
It can not be divided among brothers.
It multiplies even when spent.
Such is the wealth of knowledge, aptly the best among all.”

- A Sanskrit Saying

]]> By: Rich http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html/comment-page-1#comment-10029 Rich Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html#comment-10029 Scott: I agree with your conclusion about what is new. “21st century skills” are not new. What is new is the fact that all our children—not just the 18 out of 100 American ninth graders who will finish a post-secondary degree within six years of high school graduation—need these skills to succeed. There may have been a time when finishing high school without having developed those skills did not prevent students from obtaining work sufficient to provide for themselves and their families. Today, however, students that do not have this common core of skills will not be able to find any employment. The work previously done by students lacking those skills can now be done more cheaply somewhere else or by a machine. Scott:

I agree with your conclusion about what is new. “21st century skills” are not new. What is new is the fact that all our children—not just the 18 out of 100 American ninth graders who will finish a post-secondary degree within six years of high school graduation—need these skills to succeed.

There may have been a time when finishing high school without having developed those skills did not prevent students from obtaining work sufficient to provide for themselves and their families. Today, however, students that do not have this common core of skills will not be able to find any employment. The work previously done by students lacking those skills can now be done more cheaply somewhere else or by a machine.

]]> By: Joel VerDuin http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html/comment-page-1#comment-10028 Joel VerDuin Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/08/education-and-learning-to-think.html#comment-10028 This is really weighty stuff. What if we dig deeper into what "schools" are and find out that we not only lack this in teaching and learning, but lack it in the institution as well (at all levels)? What if the improvement cycle in schools (whatever it may be) does not engage the adults in this type of thinking? I'm generalizing of course, and I am sure we can find that some wonderful teachers do outstanding work on this front, but we rarely talk about the outstanding school or outstanding district that behaves like this as a matter of an operationalized way to do business. This is really weighty stuff.

What if we dig deeper into what “schools” are and find out that we not only lack this in teaching and learning, but lack it in the institution as well (at all levels)? What if the improvement cycle in schools (whatever it may be) does not engage the adults in this type of thinking?

I’m generalizing of course, and I am sure we can find that some wonderful teachers do outstanding work on this front, but we rarely talk about the outstanding school or outstanding district that behaves like this as a matter of an operationalized way to do business.

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