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	<title>Comments on: Survivor, witch hunts, and the quest for teacher quality</title>
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	<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html</link>
	<description>Technology, leadership, and the future of schools</description>
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		<title>By: Sarah Cannon</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html/comment-page-1#comment-10699</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Cannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html#comment-10699</guid>
		<description>Gut reaction. In a high turnover school, is getting rid of your worst teacher as important as have some small bit of consistency in the faculty?

I&#039;ve got a guess about who would lose Survivor if the teachers were the ones voting at my school, and as much as part of me wants the teacher to leave, I&#039;m not sure it helps the students to increase turnover. (Between 27 and 45 percent of our core teachers will not be returning next year.)

Though if students included were included in the vote I might be just as likely on the chopping board. (The difficulty of being the teacher who most enforces standards in the school. I&#039;m mean enough to grade on what you know. The other teacher makes grades up based on what he thinks the students have done.)

Regardless, I do wish there were more of the atmosphere Jack Welch describes at my school. Make me feel loved or help me be better.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gut reaction. In a high turnover school, is getting rid of your worst teacher as important as have some small bit of consistency in the faculty?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got a guess about who would lose Survivor if the teachers were the ones voting at my school, and as much as part of me wants the teacher to leave, I&#8217;m not sure it helps the students to increase turnover. (Between 27 and 45 percent of our core teachers will not be returning next year.)</p>
<p>Though if students included were included in the vote I might be just as likely on the chopping board. (The difficulty of being the teacher who most enforces standards in the school. I&#8217;m mean enough to grade on what you know. The other teacher makes grades up based on what he thinks the students have done.)</p>
<p>Regardless, I do wish there were more of the atmosphere Jack Welch describes at my school. Make me feel loved or help me be better.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ Goerend</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html/comment-page-1#comment-10700</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Goerend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html#comment-10700</guid>
		<description>I like this idea, but I want to highlight one key aspect: &quot;everyone involved with the school gets a vote&quot;.  Your kid going to a certain school does not automatically make you involved in that school.  Believe me, I wish it did, but it flat doesn&#039;t.  Make parents earn a vote.  Parents have to volunteer a certain number of hours -- something totally reasonable, say 8 hours, so they take one day of work off a year and volunteer at school -- during the year or show some sort of real involvement in their students&#039; education.  Have Flip cams available to check out and record you and your student reading/discussing/something educational for a total of X hours.

I just think that if we&#039;re only going after teachers who are &quot;going through the motions&quot; then having all those people vote is overkill.  Administrators can identify them and should be able to fire them.  That&#039;s why admins make the big bucks.  To carry out the Survivor analogy, not all the people voted off that show were the &quot;weakest link.&quot;  Remember, that show was a game.  People voted off competitors.  This could be an unintended consequence.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this idea, but I want to highlight one key aspect: &#8220;everyone involved with the school gets a vote&#8221;.  Your kid going to a certain school does not automatically make you involved in that school.  Believe me, I wish it did, but it flat doesn&#8217;t.  Make parents earn a vote.  Parents have to volunteer a certain number of hours &#8212; something totally reasonable, say 8 hours, so they take one day of work off a year and volunteer at school &#8212; during the year or show some sort of real involvement in their students&#8217; education.  Have Flip cams available to check out and record you and your student reading/discussing/something educational for a total of X hours.</p>
<p>I just think that if we&#8217;re only going after teachers who are &#8220;going through the motions&#8221; then having all those people vote is overkill.  Administrators can identify them and should be able to fire them.  That&#8217;s why admins make the big bucks.  To carry out the Survivor analogy, not all the people voted off that show were the &#8220;weakest link.&#8221;  Remember, that show was a game.  People voted off competitors.  This could be an unintended consequence.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Whaley</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html/comment-page-1#comment-10701</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Whaley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html#comment-10701</guid>
		<description>The problem with the survivor approach is the possibility that it may be too much like the game.

The people who are very good at politics are the survivors.

Office politics on steroids doesn&#039;t sound like it would be a very supportive place to work for the people you want to stay.  I would want my staff working their tails off on their subject and delivery, not building alliances.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with the survivor approach is the possibility that it may be too much like the game.</p>
<p>The people who are very good at politics are the survivors.</p>
<p>Office politics on steroids doesn&#8217;t sound like it would be a very supportive place to work for the people you want to stay.  I would want my staff working their tails off on their subject and delivery, not building alliances.</p>
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		<title>By: jbuttars</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html/comment-page-1#comment-10702</link>
		<dc:creator>jbuttars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html#comment-10702</guid>
		<description>Love the Jack Welch quote and think that it is totally relevant to schools.  That said, there have to be balanced methods of deciding who your best 20% are.  We all know that sometimes the &quot;favorite&quot; teachers in the building are not necessarily those who do anything spectacular with their curriculum or pedagogy, but who have the personality and fun activities to capture the rapport of the students and parents.  Conversely, many teachers quietly go about the business of helping students without much recognition or outward showiness.

As to the Survivor method of weeding out the &quot;bad&quot; teachers - while I have definitely wanted to vote people off the island over the years I have also had enough years of association work to know that administrators DO have ways of terminating ineffective teachers if they are willing to do the legwork.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the Jack Welch quote and think that it is totally relevant to schools.  That said, there have to be balanced methods of deciding who your best 20% are.  We all know that sometimes the &#8220;favorite&#8221; teachers in the building are not necessarily those who do anything spectacular with their curriculum or pedagogy, but who have the personality and fun activities to capture the rapport of the students and parents.  Conversely, many teachers quietly go about the business of helping students without much recognition or outward showiness.</p>
<p>As to the Survivor method of weeding out the &#8220;bad&#8221; teachers &#8211; while I have definitely wanted to vote people off the island over the years I have also had enough years of association work to know that administrators DO have ways of terminating ineffective teachers if they are willing to do the legwork.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Ferriter</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html/comment-page-1#comment-10703</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Ferriter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html#comment-10703</guid>
		<description>On the surface, I&#039;m totally in, Scott.  I think the bottom ten percent of teachers in every school just bring down freaking morale times ten!  They&#039;re a drag on everything---student achievement, change efforts, motivation of other faculty members---yet there&#039;s nothing that can be done to &quot;get rid of &#039;em.&quot;

What&#039;s worse is that many of them are at the top of the pay scale, so they&#039;re a drag on the resources and responsiveness of a school, too!

Here&#039;s where I&#039;m a bit concerned, though:  Does this proposal make the faulty assumption that there is an inexhaustible supply of great teachers to fill the places of the bottom 10 percent?

Would &quot;the replacements&quot; automatically be better than those that we can?

In my suburban school in a vibrant community outside Raleigh, the answer&#039;s probably yes.  In the poor, rural Eastern part of our state----places where there are only a handful of schools and teachers to begin with----I&#039;m doubtful.

Then again, is holding on to incompetence because we&#039;re afraid of hiring more incompetence a responsible decision?

This one&#039;s got my mind brewing...
Bill
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the surface, I&#8217;m totally in, Scott.  I think the bottom ten percent of teachers in every school just bring down freaking morale times ten!  They&#8217;re a drag on everything&#8212;student achievement, change efforts, motivation of other faculty members&#8212;yet there&#8217;s nothing that can be done to &#8220;get rid of &#8216;em.&#8221;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s worse is that many of them are at the top of the pay scale, so they&#8217;re a drag on the resources and responsiveness of a school, too!</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s where I&#8217;m a bit concerned, though:  Does this proposal make the faulty assumption that there is an inexhaustible supply of great teachers to fill the places of the bottom 10 percent?</p>
<p>Would &#8220;the replacements&#8221; automatically be better than those that we can?</p>
<p>In my suburban school in a vibrant community outside Raleigh, the answer&#8217;s probably yes.  In the poor, rural Eastern part of our state&#8212;-places where there are only a handful of schools and teachers to begin with&#8212;-I&#8217;m doubtful.</p>
<p>Then again, is holding on to incompetence because we&#8217;re afraid of hiring more incompetence a responsible decision?</p>
<p>This one&#8217;s got my mind brewing&#8230;<br />
Bill</p>
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		<title>By: Paul C</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html/comment-page-1#comment-10704</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html#comment-10704</guid>
		<description>Like Bill, I like the idea, but I fear some of the side effects.  In fact, I see a lot of overlap with the work of Anthony Muhammad on school culture (see the upcoming discussion at Tempered Radical: &lt;a href=&quot;http://teacherleaders.typepad.com/the_tempered_radical/2009/04/transforming-school-culture-with-anthony-muhammad.html).&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://teacherleaders.typepad.com/the_tempered_radical/2009/04/transforming-school-culture-with-anthony-muhammad.html).&lt;/a&gt;  Would the push toward collaborative Professional Learning Teams be sidelined by all of the one-on-one competition of fighting for your job every day of the year?  It would make us all into the Survivors that Muhammad describes.

Maybe the key is to build community and then develop better programs to help struggling teachers improve, before they find themselves on the chopping block.

Which is more important: a strong sense of community or a strong group of qualified educators?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Bill, I like the idea, but I fear some of the side effects.  In fact, I see a lot of overlap with the work of Anthony Muhammad on school culture (see the upcoming discussion at Tempered Radical: <a href="http://teacherleaders.typepad.com/the_tempered_radical/2009/04/transforming-school-culture-with-anthony-muhammad.html)." rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://teacherleaders.typepad.com/the_tempered_radical/2009/04/transforming-school-culture-with-anthony-muhammad.html" rel="nofollow">http://teacherleaders.typepad.com/the_tempered_radical/2009/04/transforming-school-culture-with-anthony-muhammad.html</a>).  Would the push toward collaborative Professional Learning Teams be sidelined by all of the one-on-one competition of fighting for your job every day of the year?  It would make us all into the Survivors that Muhammad describes.</p>
<p>Maybe the key is to build community and then develop better programs to help struggling teachers improve, before they find themselves on the chopping block.</p>
<p>Which is more important: a strong sense of community or a strong group of qualified educators?</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html/comment-page-1#comment-10705</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html#comment-10705</guid>
		<description>If you rank teaches in every school, someone has to be on the bottom. This doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that the people at the bottom are necessarily &quot;bad&quot;, although it might. I think ineffective teachers should be removed, but I&#039;m not sure this is the solution.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you rank teaches in every school, someone has to be on the bottom. This doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that the people at the bottom are necessarily &#8220;bad&#8221;, although it might. I think ineffective teachers should be removed, but I&#8217;m not sure this is the solution.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html/comment-page-1#comment-10706</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html#comment-10706</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always believed that parents and students should be asked to give feedback on teachers and administrators at the end of the year. If you don&#039;t know how you are perceived, how do you improve your performance? One 30 minute administrative observation each year just isn&#039;t enough.

In the business world, 360 degree feedback for employee evaluations is common. Customer feedback surveys are even more common. Yet in K-12 schools, we never ask the students what they think of their teachers. Are we too afraid to hear what kids and parents might really think?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always believed that parents and students should be asked to give feedback on teachers and administrators at the end of the year. If you don&#8217;t know how you are perceived, how do you improve your performance? One 30 minute administrative observation each year just isn&#8217;t enough.</p>
<p>In the business world, 360 degree feedback for employee evaluations is common. Customer feedback surveys are even more common. Yet in K-12 schools, we never ask the students what they think of their teachers. Are we too afraid to hear what kids and parents might really think?</p>
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		<title>By: Claus</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html/comment-page-1#comment-10707</link>
		<dc:creator>Claus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html#comment-10707</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Roger and Paul on the dangers of cut-throat political machinations. Does peer review offer a less perilous model?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Roger and Paul on the dangers of cut-throat political machinations. Does peer review offer a less perilous model?</p>
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		<title>By: David Keane</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html/comment-page-1#comment-10708</link>
		<dc:creator>David Keane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2009/05/survivorwitchhunts.html#comment-10708</guid>
		<description>As a teacher, a coach, and an administrator, there have been times in my career where I have not necessarily been the most popular person in the school. I believe I was doing the right thing, but there were those who strived to be liked rather than do what is right.  I don&#039;t know that I want evaluation to become a popularity contest. I would guess that there would be many teachers who would drastically lower their standards to ensure they remain employed. I am not a fan of reality television.  This is largely due to the message I believe they send to people who watch them, &quot;Do whatever it takes to win including compromising your basic values and beliefs.  Lie and deceive if it benefits you and kiss up to those who are currently in a position to hurt you.&quot;
Not an environment I want to work in, and certainly not an environment I want my children growing up in.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a teacher, a coach, and an administrator, there have been times in my career where I have not necessarily been the most popular person in the school. I believe I was doing the right thing, but there were those who strived to be liked rather than do what is right.  I don&#8217;t know that I want evaluation to become a popularity contest. I would guess that there would be many teachers who would drastically lower their standards to ensure they remain employed. I am not a fan of reality television.  This is largely due to the message I believe they send to people who watch them, &#8220;Do whatever it takes to win including compromising your basic values and beliefs.  Lie and deceive if it benefits you and kiss up to those who are currently in a position to hurt you.&#8221;<br />
Not an environment I want to work in, and certainly not an environment I want my children growing up in.</p>
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