Comments on: Iowa – 21st century curricula http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html Technology, leadership, and the future of schools Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:42:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bill Bradley http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html/comment-page-1#comment-25644 Bill Bradley Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:42:49 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html#comment-25644 In fact I said that almost all people's skills can be improved, which is exactly what the research shows. Research also shows that genetics, nutrition, and environment are far greater contributing factors than education is. Changes in educational policy will not bring a significant number of people to the level that the "Creative Class" requires any more than changes in Physical Education and School Nutrition Programs will cut down on obesity. That does not mean that we should do nothing, but expecting a large percentage of them to become adaptable, media-savvy, creative problem solvers is as unrealistic as expecting them to become star athletes. In fact I said that almost all people’s skills can be improved, which is exactly what the research shows. Research also shows that genetics, nutrition, and environment are far greater contributing factors than education is.

Changes in educational policy will not bring a significant number of people to the level that the “Creative Class” requires any more than changes in Physical Education and School Nutrition Programs will cut down on obesity. That does not mean that we should do nothing, but expecting a large percentage of them
to become adaptable, media-savvy, creative problem solvers is as unrealistic as expecting them to become star athletes.

]]> By: Scott McLeod http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html/comment-page-1#comment-25612 Scott McLeod Mon, 23 Aug 2010 09:27:41 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html#comment-25612 Bill, isn't it exactly these kinds of beliefs that have held poor and minority children back for decades? If cognitive, sociological, and educational research have taught us anything, it's that 'nurture' is just as important as 'nature' and that notions of intelligence as 'fixed' are both outdated and viciously harmful. We have countless examples of instances where kids that society (and, apparently, you?) have given up on because they're 'just not smart' are quite successful because we've changed the environments around them. Douglas Reeves' 90-90-90 schools, the schools profiled by Chenoweth in 'It's Being Done,' the work done by the Education Trust, etc. all belie the notion that some kids just aren't 'smart' enough. The ones who aren't smart enough are the educators and policymakers who haven't figured out yet - or are unwilling to - reexamine our practices and structures to do what's right for kids. I, and the scientific community at large, emphatically deny your assertion. Bill, isn’t it exactly these kinds of beliefs that have held poor and minority children back for decades? If cognitive, sociological, and educational research have taught us anything, it’s that ‘nurture’ is just as important as ‘nature’ and that notions of intelligence as ‘fixed’ are both outdated and viciously harmful. We have countless examples of instances where kids that society (and, apparently, you?) have given up on because they’re ‘just not smart’ are quite successful because we’ve changed the environments around them. Douglas Reeves’ 90-90-90 schools, the schools profiled by Chenoweth in ‘It’s Being Done,’ the work done by the Education Trust, etc. all belie the notion that some kids just aren’t ‘smart’ enough. The ones who aren’t smart enough are the educators and policymakers who haven’t figured out yet – or are unwilling to – reexamine our practices and structures to do what’s right for kids. I, and the scientific community at large, emphatically deny your assertion.

]]> By: Bill Bradley http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html/comment-page-1#comment-25561 Bill Bradley Mon, 23 Aug 2010 00:51:52 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html#comment-25561 Including those skills in education is a fine idea, but ignoring the realities of differing abilities is foolhardy. Effective communication is so strongly associated with intelligence that people who can read teleprompters well are seen as far more intelligent than they actually are and people who can not express themselves effectively are not given due weight. Identifying key points,breaking down problems, making connections, being able to compare and contrast several different ideas or concepts are not equally distributed skills. They can be <i>improved</i> for almost all people, but educators are not able to just order up a round of smarter people. It is quite obvious in everyday life that many people are lacking in critical thinking, communication, adaptability, and problem solving skills. I find it difficult to believe that the method of their education is the major, or even significantly contributing factor to that situation. I started my undergraduate education in 1990, by graduation many of my science and mathematics classmates were working in an industry that had not existed when we began (the World Wide Web), and were in high demand. Why? Because the level of adaptability and problem solving required for the field at the time was rare and highly valued. They would have been creative and excellent problem solvers in any field, there just happened to be a sudden market demand. More market demand will not magically produce more ability. Including those skills in education is a fine idea, but ignoring the realities of differing abilities is foolhardy.

Effective communication is so strongly associated with intelligence that people who can read teleprompters well are seen as far more intelligent than they actually are and people who can not express themselves effectively are not given due weight.

Identifying key points,breaking down problems, making connections, being able to compare and contrast several different ideas or concepts are not equally distributed skills. They can be improved for almost all people, but educators are not able to just order up a round of smarter people.

It is quite obvious in everyday life that many people are lacking in critical thinking, communication, adaptability, and problem solving skills. I find it difficult to believe that the method of their education is the major, or even significantly contributing factor to that situation.

I started my undergraduate education in 1990, by graduation many of my science and mathematics classmates were working in an industry that had not existed when we began (the World Wide Web), and were in high demand. Why? Because the level of adaptability and problem solving required for the field at the time was rare and highly valued. They would have been creative and excellent problem solvers in any field, there just happened to be a sudden market demand. More market demand will not magically produce more ability.

]]> By: Scott McLeod http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html/comment-page-1#comment-25556 Scott McLeod Mon, 23 Aug 2010 00:17:41 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html#comment-25556 Bill, I'd encourage you to see the bottom quote here: http://goo.gl/3neB Bill, I’d encourage you to see the bottom quote here:

http://goo.gl/3neB

]]> By: Bill Bradley http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html/comment-page-1#comment-25551 Bill Bradley Sun, 22 Aug 2010 23:49:27 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html#comment-25551 Okay, since no one else has mentioned the elephant in the room, I will. How many of these skills are associated with <b> intelligence</b>? We do not live in Lake Wobegon. What businesses are saying is that they can do more with smarter, more flexible and creative workers. I know I'm shocked by that revelation. Next thing they'll tell me may be that the NBA to recruits people who are not only athletic, but tall as well! Okay, since no one else has mentioned the elephant in the room, I will. How many of these skills are associated with intelligence? We do not live in Lake Wobegon. What businesses are saying is that they can do more with smarter, more flexible and creative workers. I know I’m shocked by that revelation. Next thing they’ll tell me may be that the NBA to recruits people who are not only athletic, but tall as well!

]]> By: Mike Fladlien http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html/comment-page-1#comment-25429 Mike Fladlien Sun, 22 Aug 2010 02:03:36 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html#comment-25429 I have an unproven economic theory that goes, "There's never been an invention that was solely used in the manner for which it was invented." So the car found hundreds of uses no intended by the creators. The technology that Scott asks that teachers use will find applications greater than the ones intended. You can't ignore this technology. I have an unproven economic theory that goes, “There’s never been an invention that was solely used in the manner for which it was invented.” So the car found hundreds of uses no intended by the creators. The technology that Scott asks that teachers use will find applications greater than the ones intended. You can’t ignore this technology.

]]> By: Robert Pondiscio http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html/comment-page-1#comment-11121 Robert Pondiscio Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html#comment-11121 Scott: Nobody, but nobody is suggesting 21st Century skills are not a desired outcome for schools in Iowa or anywhere. But I'm deeply skeptical that P21 has the answer of how to do it. I've written extensively about this over the the Core Knowledge blog, but the indispensible thinker and writer on this is Dan Willingham. He put up a piece today over at Brittanica blog that outlines a number of insupportable assumptions that P21 is making that have enormous ramifications for teaching and learning. His post is here: <a href="http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2009/03/flawed-assumptions-undergird-the-partnership-for-21st-century-skills-movement-in-education" rel="nofollow">http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2009/03/flawed-assumptions-undergird-the-partnership-for-21st-century-skills-movement-in-education</a> I absolutely agree that we need to equip kids with not just academic content but help them to become agile thinkers. But P21 has shown us no evidence that they know how to do this. A diagnosis is not a cure. Scott:

Nobody, but nobody is suggesting 21st Century skills are not a desired outcome for schools in Iowa or anywhere. But I’m deeply skeptical that P21 has the answer of how to do it. I’ve written extensively about this over the the Core Knowledge blog, but the indispensible thinker and writer on this is Dan Willingham. He put up a piece today over at Brittanica blog that outlines a number of insupportable assumptions that P21 is making that have enormous ramifications for teaching and learning. His post is here: http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2009/03/flawed-assumptions-undergird-the-partnership-for-21st-century-skills-movement-in-education

I absolutely agree that we need to equip kids with not just academic content but help them to become agile thinkers. But P21 has shown us no evidence that they know how to do this.

A diagnosis is not a cure.

]]> By: Ken Allan http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html/comment-page-1#comment-11122 Ken Allan Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html#comment-11122 Kia ora Scott I agree with Robert in that 'diagnosis is not a cure'. But observation can lead to diagnosis and can also provide pathways to find a cure. You have presented a wealth of observation here and I thank you for this summary of how you see it. Catchya later from Middle-earth Kia ora Scott

I agree with Robert in that ‘diagnosis is not a cure’. But observation can lead to diagnosis and can also provide pathways to find a cure.

You have presented a wealth of observation here and I thank you for this summary of how you see it.

Catchya later
from Middle-earth

]]> By: Michael Doyle http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html/comment-page-1#comment-11123 Michael Doyle Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html#comment-11123 New Jersey has chosen the blue pill, and despite (or God help us because of) P21 came up with the following nonsense: "For years, many high schools educated students differently, depending on their plans for the future. Now, because of all the changes in the world, all graduates will need to have the same knowledge and skills." I agree with you that "regurgitation of discrete facts and low-level procedural knowledge" is a poor excuse for education. I also agree that a child who develops critical thinking skills makes for a better employee for creative/analytical industries. I disagree, however, that we need to convert our public schools into training grounds to fill Cisco's 2029 workforce. Given the current economic slide, even a PhD may not get you a well-paying job. My kids may be better served learning subsistence living skills. I can help students develop critical thinking skills as they learn to knead, weave, sow, and ponder. New Jersey has chosen the blue pill, and despite (or God help us because of) P21 came up with the following nonsense:

“For years, many high schools educated students differently, depending on their plans for the future.

Now, because of all the changes in the world, all graduates will need to have the same knowledge and skills.”

I agree with you that “regurgitation of discrete facts and low-level procedural knowledge” is a poor excuse for education. I also agree that a child who develops critical thinking skills makes for a better employee for creative/analytical industries.

I disagree, however, that we need to convert our public schools into training grounds to fill Cisco’s 2029 workforce. Given the current economic slide, even a PhD may not get you a well-paying job. My kids may be better served learning subsistence living skills.

I can help students develop critical thinking skills as they learn to knead, weave, sow, and ponder.

]]> By: Larry http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html/comment-page-1#comment-11124 Larry Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2009/03/21st-century-curricula.html#comment-11124 Part of the problem is many of the state standards include the skills you reference as part of their content standards. So "public speaking" is part of reading standards or "problem solving" is part of math. Even the legislation authorizing No Child Left Behind: <a href="http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/pg2.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/pg2.html</a> talks about states incorporating skills in their standards and assess higher order thinking skills. Part of the problem is many of the state standards include the skills you reference as part of their content standards. So “public speaking” is part of reading standards or “problem solving” is part of math. Even the legislation authorizing No Child Left Behind: http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/pg2.html talks about states incorporating skills in their standards and assess higher order thinking skills.

]]>