Comments on: Beware outside consultants? – Part 2, Ruby Payne

By: The Best Critiques Of Ruby Payne | Larry Ferlazzo’s Websites of the Day…

Tue, 24 Jan 2012 05:05:36 +0000

[...] and others which I think have been overly ideological. Here’s a comment I left on Scott McLeod’s blog a few years ago during a conversation about [...]

By: Nancy Brown

Nancy Brown — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:12:00 +0000

21st century professional development should be subject based. Hopefully taught by masters in the field, whether they are educators or not. It is not an economical use of our time, especially in the present state of the world where most folks have little to NO free time,to have PD’s that do not assist an individual teacher’s needs, be them pedagogical, technological, or in their field. Teachers need time to investigate books, websites, and talk with other teachers about the areas they are in need of tweeking. It is an uneconomical use of our time to listen to someone talk about eductaion in a broad way, often not in touch with your school or specific disicpline, who is there only because a district leader thinks that person has all the answers.
Ruby Payne’s name and book have made it into my school. I hope she never gets invited to speak here.

By: D. Noble-Olson

D. Noble-Olson — Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:22:33 +0000

I have had the pleasure of working for the last 12 years in a school district that has a student population of approx. 50% free and reduced lunch. I realize Payne has received much criticism regarding her work in A Framework for Understand Poverty but I found much of the information presented in her book helpful in understanding many of the behaviors I witness on a daily basis in my school. I believe any reading used as a research source needs to be accepted with caution as also needs to be done with Paynes writing. I’ve read that many of the criticizers of Paynes work feels that her research actually increases prejudice. I can understand that train of thought but for myself, I think her research lessened my bias in that I now feel I understand the reason behind the behaviors I’m seeing. It does not mean I will tolerate the behaviors any more than I did before but I may use more of a teaching mode to try to change the behavior, rather than an authoritative approach to controlling the behavior. I found Gorski difficult to read only in the fact that his comments were so extremely critical that he lost validity with me. Certainly, some value can be found in any learned persons research. I for one am glad I read Payne’s book as it also reinforced for me the need for schools to not underestimate the value of the teacher – student relationship.

By: Renee

Renee — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 14:40:06 +0000

It is my opinion that Ruby Payne’s critics have merit. I believe that Payne reinforces stereotypes and sells these stereotypes to teachers as an effective way to help their students. Payne encourages teachers to seek to understand their students and encourage them to learn alternate behaviors that will allow them to succeed in school. Researchers would further argue that Payne provides no concrete evidence to support her conclusions. They are merely observations and insights. Although they may offer a glimpse into the world of poverty, I think that Payne’s insights must be presented cautiously in a manner that emphasizes that these characteristics are not always present among people living in poverty. Teachers need to be empowered to believe that they have the ability to form meaningful relationships with students and that all students are capable of achieving.

By: bmcg

bmcg — Sat, 27 Nov 2010 05:20:43 +0000

I understand that we do not need to accept everything that Ruby Payne states as fact in her Framework for Understanding Poverty. She does make generalizations to explain cultural differences among the classes. Isnt that what we do with research? Find data to support our ideas and make generalizations.
I did not find most of Payne’s book to be eye-opening in that I have been working with students of poverty for 12 years, and have observed many of the same issues that she discusses. Critics who say because her research is anecdotal that she is not worthy of merit is silly, to be kind.
I had never seen nor heard of the Hidden Rules of Poverty prior to reading this book, but I did find it interesting. I liked the way she compared the classes using the chart to identify major differences. And for the most part, I had to agree with what she wrote.
I had to laugh in disbelief at some of Payne’s dissenters in regard to deficit theory. Yes, maybe some of what Payne has witnessed has led her to the belief that many people stay in poverty because they choose. But she also notes that many people in poverty lack resources, quality education, quality jobs and healthcare, and are exposed to violence, teen pregnancy, and drug abuse/trafficking that significantly hinder their ability to move out of their life of poverty.
I believe that Payne’s intentions are good in that she is trying to help teachers give all students the tools they need to be successful in life. Does that make her a bad person?

By: Quixotic29

Quixotic29 — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 05:15:51 +0000

Districts should not spend their monies on Dr. Payne’s work; instead schools should invest their monies on providing on-site health care centers and other programs that would benefit the students and families that suffer from poverty. It would make more sense that since we as a group of people are aware of the root causes of poverty that we should instill the programs that can resolve the problems associated with being in poverty. Some of the issues are poor attendance and achievements gaps which could be solved by educating parents on health, providing free or reduced health care so students can stay and remain healthy to be able to attend school to learn. This serves as just one example. We always hear of the problems, we always talk about the strategies, but how often do we implement them and take a real active initiative to do something that shows a huge impact. The knowledge and the cure is available and out here, the question is who is willing to fund this and really make it happen.

By: Terry

Terry — Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:23:20 +0000

I have taught in a county for 14 years that has a child poverty rate of 22.1%. 37% of the children start school without adequate language, literacy, social or emotional skills. 223 children are indentified as homeless in my school district and 574 are at risk of being homeless. I do NOT believe that children living in poverty are innately less intelligent than middle-class students. I do believe that it is harder to learn when you have no bed to sleep in, you go to sleep hungry, your clothes are not clean, and you change schools frequently because of your guardian’s lack of financial stability. I agree that it would be wonderful to be able to see if “lack of money” is the only thing that keeps people in poverty or keeps children from achieving their full potential. I do know that before I read Payne’s book and learned the supposed hidden rules of poverty, I was able to effectively teach, inspire, and discipline hundreds of impoverished students.

By: Reform me! | Reflections on Teaching

Reform me! | Reflections on Teaching — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 05:02:36 +0000

[...] trainings on Culturally Responsive Teaching and Learning were like the anti-thesis of Ruby Payne. It was also like a trip down memory lane for me, because my teacher preparation at San Francisco [...]

By: sb

sb — Sun, 08 Aug 2010 21:37:04 +0000

Yeah for Ruby Payne (RP) and yeah for opponents like Paul Gorski (PG). Both have provided food-for-thought. One seems to be more practical for educators (RP) such as myself, to “hang-their-hat” so-to-speak, to help make sense of something they’ve never experienced. The other one is a little more for the philosophers & politicians who seem to give not only give lip service to, but billions of dollars to help eradicate poverty in the “fight to provide equal access to fully equipped school, healthcare and safe and affordable housing… you know, those things that we ‘wealthier peers’ take for granted.” Who’s making the broad generalizations NOW? (PG, Dec 28, 2008 @ 8:37)
I’m trying so hard not to get cynical or sarcastic, but I just can’t help but wonder; have we not already as a society, BEEN TRYING, for over 46 years, to be getting rid of, i.e., to eradicate poverty AND to provide equitable access to America’s poor? History reveals that in 1964, Lyndon Johnson launched, what was started in the Kennedy administration, when he declared War on Poverty.
It’s purpose was to eradicate poverty in the United States by getting rid of city-slums, (provide safe & affordable housing) restore people stricken with poverty back to “good measure”(give them welfare dollars so they could “get on their feet”) to provide education for the “less fortunate” (Head Start, which grew into a permanent billion dollar programs to provide education, health & nutritional services to more than 18 million low income preschool children) and then finally, it was to give full rights to” blacks and other minorities”.
Many, many, many programs were created and launched during and since this declaration against poverty in the United States to make in-roads in eradicating poverty. Three well-funded programs that have funneled billions of dollars in trying to make a difference are Medicare, Medicaid, and the Neighborhood Youth Corps. The latter was created to keep “needy” students in school by offering them incentives such as stipends, work experience and “attitudinal training”. Other programs and billions spent included trying to improve the living conditions of the migrant farmer and yet another to provide rehabilitation services to welfare beneficiaries. Is the argument in return going to simply be that we haven’t spent enough to get rid of poverty? I think that throwing money at poverty HAS made a difference to help those who have decided that they simply did not want to stay in poverty forever. Is there not a difference between generational poverty and situational poverty?
I have taught for 15 years in a wealthy private high school in a bedroom community for 15 years. I have taught in a poorer rural high school for 15 years where 60-65% are free & reduced. And, I grew up in a very middle class family… and attended a very middle class small town high school, and guess what, there IS a HUGE difference in the culture that exists among the different socio-economic classes. I knew there were some MAJOR underpinning differences in attitudes in especially planning for the near-future (college planning & leaving home). I was only able to start making sense of attitudes and views, especially toward higher education, after becoming less ignorant about generational poverty.
Ruby Payne’s book holds terrific truths that helped ME to be more helpful and encouraging to my students and parents. Her wisdom, with its generalizations and all, gave me a base of understanding of generational poverty.

By: joe

joe — Sat, 07 Aug 2010 21:13:24 +0000

Flip Flippen’s Capturing Kids Hearts training – SUCKS.

Yeah, right – you ask a kid “what are doing and what are you supposed to be doing?” – and the kid answers “Fuck you.”

This training is nothing more than liberal, Progressive bullshit.

It is a waste of money – but you won’t hear many teachers giving truthful feedback…they are too worried about keeping their jobs…and giving in to the young, idealistic, morons.