Comments on: Alfie Kohn on the next U.S. Secretary of Education http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html Technology, leadership, and the future of schools Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:42:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Russ http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html/comment-page-1#comment-11578 Russ Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html#comment-11578 I've been hooked on Alfie Kohn since The Homework Myth. Unfortunately, ideas such as swinging the pendulum far away from grades are not something one-person can do. Of course, one person can get the ball rolling, but I'm worrying about keeping my head above water in my first year as a teacher. I keep Kohn's ideas close to my heart and relish any chance I get to "declare my allegiance." I’ve been hooked on Alfie Kohn since The Homework Myth. Unfortunately, ideas such as swinging the pendulum far away from grades are not something one-person can do. Of course, one person can get the ball rolling, but I’m worrying about keeping my head above water in my first year as a teacher. I keep Kohn’s ideas close to my heart and relish any chance I get to “declare my allegiance.”

]]> By: Chuck http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html/comment-page-1#comment-11579 Chuck Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html#comment-11579 It's a good article and I tend to side with the LDH ideology, but I still hold that teacher accountability is important and needs to be addressed, at least to me, by the "progressivists". If I were editing, I'd take out or request supportive evidence around this sentence: "Darling-Hammond, meanwhile, tends to be the choice of people who understand how children learn." It’s a good article and I tend to side with the LDH ideology, but I still hold that teacher accountability is important and needs to be addressed, at least to me, by the “progressivists”.

If I were editing, I’d take out or request supportive evidence around this sentence:
“Darling-Hammond, meanwhile, tends to be the choice of people who understand how children learn.”

]]> By: Carl Anderson http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html/comment-page-1#comment-11580 Carl Anderson Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html#comment-11580 I nominate Alfie Kohn to head the Department of Education! I nominate Alfie Kohn to head the Department of Education!

]]> By: Lance http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html/comment-page-1#comment-11581 Lance Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html#comment-11581 Alfie is going to be speaking in Atlantic, IA on January 19. Not sure if it is open to the public or not, but I will be looking into that. Alfie is going to be speaking in Atlantic, IA on January 19. Not sure if it is open to the public or not, but I will be looking into that.

]]> By: Russ http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html/comment-page-1#comment-11582 Russ Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html#comment-11582 Lance, Please let me know what you find out. Thanks! Lance,
Please let me know what you find out.
Thanks!

]]> By: Charlie A. Roy http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html/comment-page-1#comment-11583 Charlie A. Roy Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html#comment-11583 @Scott Thanks for the link to the article. I'll be rooting for Darling-Hammond. Sometimes getting the business world to understand that educating a child is radically different than quality control in manufacturing widgets is a difficult task. They should have a national day where the CEO geniuses actually spend time in a classroom trying to teach. It would be eye opening. @Scott
Thanks for the link to the article. I’ll be rooting for Darling-Hammond. Sometimes getting the business world to understand that educating a child is radically different than quality control in manufacturing widgets is a difficult task. They should have a national day where the CEO geniuses actually spend time in a classroom trying to teach. It would be eye opening.

]]> By: Kevin Riley http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html/comment-page-1#comment-11584 Kevin Riley Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html#comment-11584 Kohn is a good reference for consciousness raising. But like many of the folks at the university level, he has the luxury of being outside the heat of accountability. Folks within the K-12 system who promote the same beliefs and values (about testing, rewards, discipline, standards, etc) -- who are not university "experts"-- are dismissed as whiners, afraid of real accountability. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a lot of jockeying for this post as Sec. of Education... I don't mind Darling-Hammond... but isn't she just another university "expert" with limited real experience in the K-12 system she is supposed to lead? Kohn is a good reference for consciousness raising. But like many of the folks at the university level, he has the luxury of being outside the heat of accountability. Folks within the K-12 system who promote the same beliefs and values (about testing, rewards, discipline, standards, etc) — who are not university “experts”– are dismissed as whiners, afraid of real accountability. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a lot of jockeying for this post as Sec. of Education… I don’t mind Darling-Hammond… but isn’t she just another university “expert” with limited real experience in the K-12 system she is supposed to lead?

]]> By: Dave Keane http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html/comment-page-1#comment-11585 Dave Keane Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html#comment-11585 I am fond of many of Kohn's ideas, but I fail to see how you lead by alienating those you are attempting to lead. Kohn is often quick to cite all of the things wrong with education today, but if he really wants to change some of the practices today, he needs to go back to the k-12 system and demonstrate how this change should occur. It is very easy to point out the flaws in a system and even to point out some necessary changes, but to get these changes to occur is the real trick. I think we need people like Kohn, Smoker and others who shed light on just how ludicrous many of our practices are, but I think we need to look at Senge, Kotter and practitioners like Mike Miles for how to successfully implement the changes needed. Kohn generates conversations that is for sure, but a leader doesn't start a change initiative by pissing-off and totally alienating those he or she intends to lead. I am fond of many of Kohn’s ideas, but I fail to see how you lead by alienating those you are attempting to lead. Kohn is often quick to cite all of the things wrong with education today, but if he really wants to change some of the practices today, he needs to go back to the k-12 system and demonstrate how this change should occur. It is very easy to point out the flaws in a system and even to point out some necessary changes, but to get these changes to occur is the real trick. I think we need people like Kohn, Smoker and others who shed light on just how ludicrous many of our practices are, but I think we need to look at Senge, Kotter and practitioners like Mike Miles for how to successfully implement the changes needed. Kohn generates conversations that is for sure, but a leader doesn’t start a change initiative by pissing-off and totally alienating those he or she intends to lead.

]]> By: Mike http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html/comment-page-1#comment-11586 Mike Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html#comment-11586 As someone at the university level who teaches many going on to be K-12 teachers, I can tell you there are good reasons why Kohn is not held in high regard by many in our field. Unlike most who truly want to make a difference, Kohn has done precious little research to test his claims. Nor has he supported others in tesing his claims. Education's history is full of "iconoclasts" whose intuitively appealing ideas turned out to be wrong once they were actually tested. Most professors know that developing your theories is only the first step and actually do not want to see them implemented without proper empirical evaluation first. Remember the "self-esteem curriculum" fiasco? Another reason Kohn gets so little respect amongst his colleagues is that his presentation of what research has been done is so often wrong. Many have already commented on the straw men he set up and slayed when it came to discussing the problems with praise and rewards. He is also extremely selective as to which research he reports. It begs the question of whether he just doesn't understand the research he is discussing or is he intentionally distorting it in service to his financially lucrative role as "iconoclast"? Either way, it does not garner much respect. I'm sorry to say I've seen first-hand the problems that arise from teachers who have tried to implement things they've read from Kohn. For those who are interested in perspectives that have actually been empirically tested, I would recommend looking elsewhere, such as the work of Carol Dweck from Stanford. As someone at the university level who teaches many going on to be K-12 teachers, I can tell you there are good reasons why Kohn is not held in high regard by many in our field. Unlike most who truly want to make a difference, Kohn has done precious little research to test his claims. Nor has he supported others in tesing his claims. Education’s history is full of “iconoclasts” whose intuitively appealing ideas turned out to be wrong once they were actually tested. Most professors know that developing your theories is only the first step and actually do not want to see them implemented without proper empirical evaluation first. Remember the “self-esteem curriculum” fiasco?

Another reason Kohn gets so little respect amongst his colleagues is that his presentation of what research has been done is so often wrong. Many have already commented on the straw men he set up and slayed when it came to discussing the problems with praise and rewards. He is also extremely selective as to which research he reports. It begs the question of whether he just doesn’t understand the research he is discussing or is he intentionally distorting it in service to his financially lucrative role as “iconoclast”? Either way, it does not garner much respect.

I’m sorry to say I’ve seen first-hand the problems that arise from teachers who have tried to implement things they’ve read from Kohn. For those who are interested in perspectives that have actually been empirically tested, I would recommend looking elsewhere, such as the work of Carol Dweck from Stanford.

]]> By: Scott McLeod http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html/comment-page-1#comment-11587 Scott McLeod Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000 http://annahein.com/2008/12/alfie-kohn-on-the-next-us-secretary-of-education.html#comment-11587 Kohn's not a researcher. That's not his role in our society. Could he do a better job with the research that he does cite / analyze / dispute? Absolutely. But so could all of us. For example, I daresay that most so-called "researchers" are wide open to claims of research coverage selectivity. Like Jonathan Kozol, I see Kohn's role as being one of social critic. Goodness knows there are a number of educational practices that deserve some serious reexamination rather than acceptance as status quo. Do we have to have "peer-reviewed data" behind those ideas before we start thinking about them and treating them seriously? I hope not 'cause otherwise we're never going to get anywhere. I'm going to unapologetically stand behind most of Kohn's writing. I think his writing performs a valuable function and, as long as we read him with a critical eye and questioning brain, believe that we're better off with him than without him. If we're going to get the change that we need in K-12 schools, we need 'iconoclasts' like Kohn who help us rethink current practice. Kohn’s not a researcher. That’s not his role in our society.

Could he do a better job with the research that he does cite / analyze / dispute? Absolutely. But so could all of us. For example, I daresay that most so-called “researchers” are wide open to claims of research coverage selectivity.

Like Jonathan Kozol, I see Kohn’s role as being one of social critic. Goodness knows there are a number of educational practices that deserve some serious reexamination rather than acceptance as status quo. Do we have to have “peer-reviewed data” behind those ideas before we start thinking about them and treating them seriously? I hope not ’cause otherwise we’re never going to get anywhere.

I’m going to unapologetically stand behind most of Kohn’s writing. I think his writing performs a valuable function and, as long as we read him with a critical eye and questioning brain, believe that we’re better off with him than without him. If we’re going to get the change that we need in K-12 schools, we need ‘iconoclasts’ like Kohn who help us rethink current practice.

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