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	<title>Comments on: From literacy to digiracy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html</link>
	<description>Technology, leadership, and the future of schools</description>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Baxter</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/comment-page-1#comment-12598</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Baxter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html#comment-12598</guid>
		<description>Jobs that don&#039;t incarcerate employees within an office are rare.

I had linked a relevant post, but html comments aren&#039;t allowed. Here&#039;s a piece from USA Today you&#039;re probably familiar with. Read this before you read the next paragraph.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/12/our-gold-star-w.html

How students develop in the classroom will profoundly affect how they perform in the workplace, and we do our students a disservice by changing how classrooms work until the workplace --- not the outside world --- changes along with it.

http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jobs that don&#8217;t incarcerate employees within an office are rare.</p>
<p>I had linked a relevant post, but html comments aren&#8217;t allowed. Here&#8217;s a piece from USA Today you&#8217;re probably familiar with. Read this before you read the next paragraph.<br />
<a href="http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/12/our-gold-star-w.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/12/our-gold-star-w.html</a></p>
<p>How students develop in the classroom will profoundly affect how they perform in the workplace, and we do our students a disservice by changing how classrooms work until the workplace &#8212; not the outside world &#8212; changes along with it.</p>
<p><a href="http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">http://awaitingtenure.wordpress.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Aldrich</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/comment-page-1#comment-12599</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Aldrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html#comment-12599</guid>
		<description>Frankly, I don&#039;t think that snarky editorial from USA Today has much to do with the topic at hand.  Self-esteem is related how?

As for digiracy, this is a heavily undervalued skill in K12 education.  Our students will not work in information economy jobs that do not include access to the Internet as a tool.  Why do we still pretend that knowing the right answer in a narrow range of topics (punctuation and grammar, spelling, social sciences dates and names, maths, and science facts and trivia) is a more valuable skill than being able to FIND the right answers on a broad range of topics?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly, I don&#8217;t think that snarky editorial from USA Today has much to do with the topic at hand.  Self-esteem is related how?</p>
<p>As for digiracy, this is a heavily undervalued skill in K12 education.  Our students will not work in information economy jobs that do not include access to the Internet as a tool.  Why do we still pretend that knowing the right answer in a narrow range of topics (punctuation and grammar, spelling, social sciences dates and names, maths, and science facts and trivia) is a more valuable skill than being able to FIND the right answers on a broad range of topics?</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie A. Roy</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/comment-page-1#comment-12600</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie A. Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html#comment-12600</guid>
		<description>We have to come to terms with the fact that technology is making a certain model of teaching obsolete.  What is that model or archetype?   The sage on the stage as the giver of knowledge.  One of my teachers actually refers to himself as the giver of knowledge.  Take history for example.  Facts, dates, and other info is bountiful on the net and only a click away.  I&#039;d argue a 5th grader with google could manage a 3 on the AP test without ever taking the course.

The teacher if not the giver of knowledge then has to help bring out the connections and help the students see how events, philosophy, culture are all related.   This means a different approach.   If teachers don&#039;t like being ignored they will find irrelevancy even worse.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have to come to terms with the fact that technology is making a certain model of teaching obsolete.  What is that model or archetype?   The sage on the stage as the giver of knowledge.  One of my teachers actually refers to himself as the giver of knowledge.  Take history for example.  Facts, dates, and other info is bountiful on the net and only a click away.  I&#8217;d argue a 5th grader with google could manage a 3 on the AP test without ever taking the course.</p>
<p>The teacher if not the giver of knowledge then has to help bring out the connections and help the students see how events, philosophy, culture are all related.   This means a different approach.   If teachers don&#8217;t like being ignored they will find irrelevancy even worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Marshall</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/comment-page-1#comment-12601</link>
		<dc:creator>Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html#comment-12601</guid>
		<description>@Jeremy - knowing has not changed.  It is still more cost effective to know something than to find it, although that gap is quickly closing.  Knowing some basic math, for example, is easier than finding and using a calculator.  Even while blogging, how much does the spellcheck really help you?  Answer:  Some...if you first use another program, then spellcheck, then cut and past, then post.  Seems like someone who can do it right the first time may save both time and energy.  Having a conversation with your boss?  Wouldn&#039;t it be nice to have knowledge that may prevent you from saying, &quot;I is sure doing some big work here, so you prolly should contempemplate an intercrease in my saladry.&quot;  Unless I&#039;m missing the boat on the new &quot;speech check&quot; software out there, this will not likely land you a raise. Some information can be effectively found, but the concept that those skills aren&#039;t encouraged and taught really just blows my mind - do you think this is the typical approach?

I don&#039;t mind challenging the status quo, staring ourselves in the face realistically, or questioning our methods, but it seems that we are really promoting conversation after conversation that basically says little more than, &quot;we don&#039;t like school.&quot;  &quot;If only we could spend all day on the computer, we&#039;d be so much happier and better consumers, learners, and people.  Why can&#039;t we just do that?&quot;
Sorry, in a game of &quot;buyers&quot; on the topic, I&#039;m selling.

My viewpoint is also different than thinking we incarcerate &quot;the listless, bored, apathetic students that are prevalent in all too many of today’s high school classrooms.&quot;  Being in and around the educators of today, I think we can be proud of the challenges laid before students in a supportive environment, which encourages them to continue to learn (Scott also has a nice post on this under Mini-Golf and Learning).
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jeremy &#8211; knowing has not changed.  It is still more cost effective to know something than to find it, although that gap is quickly closing.  Knowing some basic math, for example, is easier than finding and using a calculator.  Even while blogging, how much does the spellcheck really help you?  Answer:  Some&#8230;if you first use another program, then spellcheck, then cut and past, then post.  Seems like someone who can do it right the first time may save both time and energy.  Having a conversation with your boss?  Wouldn&#8217;t it be nice to have knowledge that may prevent you from saying, &#8220;I is sure doing some big work here, so you prolly should contempemplate an intercrease in my saladry.&#8221;  Unless I&#8217;m missing the boat on the new &#8220;speech check&#8221; software out there, this will not likely land you a raise. Some information can be effectively found, but the concept that those skills aren&#8217;t encouraged and taught really just blows my mind &#8211; do you think this is the typical approach?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mind challenging the status quo, staring ourselves in the face realistically, or questioning our methods, but it seems that we are really promoting conversation after conversation that basically says little more than, &#8220;we don&#8217;t like school.&#8221;  &#8220;If only we could spend all day on the computer, we&#8217;d be so much happier and better consumers, learners, and people.  Why can&#8217;t we just do that?&#8221;<br />
Sorry, in a game of &#8220;buyers&#8221; on the topic, I&#8217;m selling.</p>
<p>My viewpoint is also different than thinking we incarcerate &#8220;the listless, bored, apathetic students that are prevalent in all too many of today’s high school classrooms.&#8221;  Being in and around the educators of today, I think we can be proud of the challenges laid before students in a supportive environment, which encourages them to continue to learn (Scott also has a nice post on this under Mini-Golf and Learning).</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Aldrich</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/comment-page-1#comment-12602</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Aldrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html#comment-12602</guid>
		<description>Marshall, what did you learn in school that helped you become the person you are today?

Basic math - elementary school.
Basic grammar and spelling - elementary school.
Basic computer skills - elementary school.
So that&#039;s a pretty good argument for the utility of elementary school. Now how about, say, past the 5th grade?

&quot;All day on the computer&quot;...funny how you say it as if that&#039;s somehow more claustrophobic than eight hours a day treated like a prisoner with most of the time wasted in a typical school setting.  For the record, I think that technology CAN be a &quot;magic schoolbus&quot;, taking kids to places they would otherwise not be able to go, interacting with people who would not likely visit their school.  Even better, it can be used to individualize instruction so the teacher can be the helper and guide rather than the enforcer and the Source.

How about we spend part of the learning day meeting standards (at our own pace), part in free exploration (perhaps under the guidance of a mentor), and then part of the day playing, reading, engaging with peers and adults and learning the way humans are programmed to do?  What exactly is the goal of formal schooling again, and how we doin&#039;?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marshall, what did you learn in school that helped you become the person you are today?</p>
<p>Basic math &#8211; elementary school.<br />
Basic grammar and spelling &#8211; elementary school.<br />
Basic computer skills &#8211; elementary school.<br />
So that&#8217;s a pretty good argument for the utility of elementary school. Now how about, say, past the 5th grade?</p>
<p>&#8220;All day on the computer&#8221;&#8230;funny how you say it as if that&#8217;s somehow more claustrophobic than eight hours a day treated like a prisoner with most of the time wasted in a typical school setting.  For the record, I think that technology CAN be a &#8220;magic schoolbus&#8221;, taking kids to places they would otherwise not be able to go, interacting with people who would not likely visit their school.  Even better, it can be used to individualize instruction so the teacher can be the helper and guide rather than the enforcer and the Source.</p>
<p>How about we spend part of the learning day meeting standards (at our own pace), part in free exploration (perhaps under the guidance of a mentor), and then part of the day playing, reading, engaging with peers and adults and learning the way humans are programmed to do?  What exactly is the goal of formal schooling again, and how we doin&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Meyer</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/comment-page-1#comment-12603</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html#comment-12603</guid>
		<description>*sigh*

I had a longer screed here but lemme just say instead that metaphors from the school system to the penal system kinda leave me with a dry mouth and a bored stance.  C&#039;mon, School 2.0.  C&#039;mon c&#039;mon c&#039;mon.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*sigh*</p>
<p>I had a longer screed here but lemme just say instead that metaphors from the school system to the penal system kinda leave me with a dry mouth and a bored stance.  C&#8217;mon, School 2.0.  C&#8217;mon c&#8217;mon c&#8217;mon.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott McLeod</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/comment-page-1#comment-12604</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html#comment-12604</guid>
		<description>@Dan: are you telling me that you didn&#039;t daily see a lot of listlessness, apathy, and/or boredom in your school&#039;s classrooms (yours excepted of course!)?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan: are you telling me that you didn&#8217;t daily see a lot of listlessness, apathy, and/or boredom in your school&#8217;s classrooms (yours excepted of course!)?</p>
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		<title>By: Scott McLeod</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/comment-page-1#comment-12605</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html#comment-12605</guid>
		<description>@Marshall: that question for Dan was meant for you too!

[and if either of you say no then you&#039;re either liars or you&#039;re in some of the most exceptional secondary schools in the country]
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Marshall: that question for Dan was meant for you too!</p>
<p>[and if either of you say no then you're either liars or you're in some of the most exceptional secondary schools in the country]</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Meyer</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/comment-page-1#comment-12606</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html#comment-12606</guid>
		<description>No, I&#039;m not saying that.  But /the metaphor/ is hypo-rational and hyper-emotional, serving better to characterize the School 2.0 stock argument than the truth in our schools.

I keep waiting for the rhetorical balance around the edtechnoblogosphere to tip in favor of bottom-up solutions, the kind that will make an impression on your teacher-as-warden.  C&#039;mon, School 2.0.  C&#039;mon c&#039;mon c&#039;mon.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I&#8217;m not saying that.  But /the metaphor/ is hypo-rational and hyper-emotional, serving better to characterize the School 2.0 stock argument than the truth in our schools.</p>
<p>I keep waiting for the rhetorical balance around the edtechnoblogosphere to tip in favor of bottom-up solutions, the kind that will make an impression on your teacher-as-warden.  C&#8217;mon, School 2.0.  C&#8217;mon c&#8217;mon c&#8217;mon.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott McLeod</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html/comment-page-1#comment-12607</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/06/from-literacy-t.html#comment-12607</guid>
		<description>@Dan: I wasn&#039;t trying to make too big a deal about the analogy. Just that the imagery associated with the word &#039;incarceration&#039; evoked imagery common to bored students in class.

Are our students intellectually constrained and restricted in class? Absolutely. Has it always been this way. Yes, in most classrooms. Are many (most?) secondary students bored at least half the time in school? I&#039;m betting yes.

So you don&#039;t like the incarceration metaphor. Fine. But where&#039;s your usual willingness to speak truth?

Oh, and why do you think a bottom-up solution to anything will scale to the level needed for widespread change / impact? We don&#039;t have much evidence of long-term substantive change in K-12 schools ever bubbling up from the bottom (because of administrative / structural factors), do we?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan: I wasn&#8217;t trying to make too big a deal about the analogy. Just that the imagery associated with the word &#8216;incarceration&#8217; evoked imagery common to bored students in class.</p>
<p>Are our students intellectually constrained and restricted in class? Absolutely. Has it always been this way. Yes, in most classrooms. Are many (most?) secondary students bored at least half the time in school? I&#8217;m betting yes.</p>
<p>So you don&#8217;t like the incarceration metaphor. Fine. But where&#8217;s your usual willingness to speak truth?</p>
<p>Oh, and why do you think a bottom-up solution to anything will scale to the level needed for widespread change / impact? We don&#8217;t have much evidence of long-term substantive change in K-12 schools ever bubbling up from the bottom (because of administrative / structural factors), do we?</p>
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