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	<title>Comments on: Bad PR: Chorus concert copyright restrictions</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html</link>
	<description>Technology, leadership, and the future of schools</description>
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		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-13082</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html#comment-13082</guid>
		<description>Copyright on what?  That&#039;s crazy!  I&#039;m assuming the school taped it and wants to sell it or something...?  That&#039;s really too bad.  I&#039;ve never heard of that before!  Choose a different song then.  Sorry Scott.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Copyright on what?  That&#8217;s crazy!  I&#8217;m assuming the school taped it and wants to sell it or something&#8230;?  That&#8217;s really too bad.  I&#8217;ve never heard of that before!  Choose a different song then.  Sorry Scott.</p>
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		<title>By: Mathew</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-13083</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html#comment-13083</guid>
		<description>For musical theater productions, the school does sign a contract that says no videotaping.  I&#039;m not sure what songs they were singing in the chorus of if that&#039;s the case here.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For musical theater productions, the school does sign a contract that says no videotaping.  I&#8217;m not sure what songs they were singing in the chorus of if that&#8217;s the case here.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Shay</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-13084</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Shay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html#comment-13084</guid>
		<description>Now that a music teacher has been vilified... The copyright law says that you can make recordings, but you must pay for a different license (citation below).  When a school purchases music, they purchase the rights to perform the songs and not record them.  The previous post is also correct, if it is a musical, in the contract there is a clause that states it can&#039;t be recorded.

Although I can see the perception of a public relation problem with parents, I could imagine the school district having to pay a copyright infringement fine might be worse.

&quot;CAN I MAKE AN ORIGINAL RECORDING OF A COPYRIGHTED SONG?

Yes, but you must contact the copyright owner and obtain a &quot;mechanical license.&quot; You will be charged a fee, the amount of which is determined by the &quot;statutory rate&quot; as set forth in the Copyright Law.  This includes recordings of church services, concerts, musicals, or any programs that include copyrighted music.&quot;

&quot;http://www.mpa.org/copyright_resource_center/church_musician#q10&quot;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that a music teacher has been vilified&#8230; The copyright law says that you can make recordings, but you must pay for a different license (citation below).  When a school purchases music, they purchase the rights to perform the songs and not record them.  The previous post is also correct, if it is a musical, in the contract there is a clause that states it can&#8217;t be recorded.</p>
<p>Although I can see the perception of a public relation problem with parents, I could imagine the school district having to pay a copyright infringement fine might be worse.</p>
<p>&#8220;CAN I MAKE AN ORIGINAL RECORDING OF A COPYRIGHTED SONG?</p>
<p>Yes, but you must contact the copyright owner and obtain a &#8220;mechanical license.&#8221; You will be charged a fee, the amount of which is determined by the &#8220;statutory rate&#8221; as set forth in the Copyright Law.  This includes recordings of church services, concerts, musicals, or any programs that include copyrighted music.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;http://www.mpa.org/copyright_resource_center/church_musician#q10&#8243;</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-13085</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html#comment-13085</guid>
		<description>I agree that maybe it is extreme, but thinking about a post that I read from David Pogue a while back....what about having parents and others just WATCH a performance and appreciate their kids and their talents instead of having to capture every single moment on video that chance are, they will watch once and never watch again.  I wonder if we are so busy trying to record our reality that we are not fully enjoying our reality?

My memory and my reminiciing are stronger and more enjoyable than an mp4 can ever be.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that maybe it is extreme, but thinking about a post that I read from David Pogue a while back&#8230;.what about having parents and others just WATCH a performance and appreciate their kids and their talents instead of having to capture every single moment on video that chance are, they will watch once and never watch again.  I wonder if we are so busy trying to record our reality that we are not fully enjoying our reality?</p>
<p>My memory and my reminiciing are stronger and more enjoyable than an mp4 can ever be.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott McLeod</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-13086</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html#comment-13086</guid>
		<description>@Barry Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I&#039;m glad that your memory&#039;s staying strong. Mine&#039;s starting to fade (either that or my brain is full and spillage is starting to occur). I also enjoy those old home movies of my childhood that my parents and grandparents made. And recording is good for those family members (grandparents again!) that can&#039;t be there. So lots of reasons why you might record. That said, I don&#039;t think we all need to be carrying around personal life recorders either!

@Terry @Mathew Thanks for the clarification. Even we attorneys need help now and then...

1) I didn&#039;t mean to vilify the music teacher(s). They were great. They weren&#039;t the ones that made the announcement.

2) As I read both the link and what you wrote, it reads to me like the sponsoring organization can&#039;t record the song(s)? But what about the public at a public event? For example, are organizations making these kinds of announcements at (a) church youth choir performances, (b) football game marching band performances, (c) the annual orchestra performance in the park, and/or (d) musical performances at the Rose Bowl parade (just to mention a few)? I&#039;m not sure they are, nor am I sure that they could do so.

Clearly I don&#039;t know enough about this. Right now I only know enough to be dangerously opinionated. It just reeks of wrongness to me (the guy in front of me too; he said, &#039;copyright my ass!&#039;). I&#039;ll try to follow up and see what I can find out.

Thanks, everyone! Getting feedback is one of the great things about blogging!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Barry Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I&#8217;m glad that your memory&#8217;s staying strong. Mine&#8217;s starting to fade (either that or my brain is full and spillage is starting to occur). I also enjoy those old home movies of my childhood that my parents and grandparents made. And recording is good for those family members (grandparents again!) that can&#8217;t be there. So lots of reasons why you might record. That said, I don&#8217;t think we all need to be carrying around personal life recorders either!</p>
<p>@Terry @Mathew Thanks for the clarification. Even we attorneys need help now and then&#8230;</p>
<p>1) I didn&#8217;t mean to vilify the music teacher(s). They were great. They weren&#8217;t the ones that made the announcement.</p>
<p>2) As I read both the link and what you wrote, it reads to me like the sponsoring organization can&#8217;t record the song(s)? But what about the public at a public event? For example, are organizations making these kinds of announcements at (a) church youth choir performances, (b) football game marching band performances, (c) the annual orchestra performance in the park, and/or (d) musical performances at the Rose Bowl parade (just to mention a few)? I&#8217;m not sure they are, nor am I sure that they could do so.</p>
<p>Clearly I don&#8217;t know enough about this. Right now I only know enough to be dangerously opinionated. It just reeks of wrongness to me (the guy in front of me too; he said, &#8216;copyright my ass!&#8217;). I&#8217;ll try to follow up and see what I can find out.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone! Getting feedback is one of the great things about blogging!</p>
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		<title>By: A. Mercer</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-13087</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Mercer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html#comment-13087</guid>
		<description>Can I add another wrinkle? The students in making the performance are also creating content that has intellectual property rights.  Aimee Bissonette discussed this with me in the last third of &quot;It&#039;s Elementary&quot; (http://tinyurl.com/6kx6lb). Might be interesting to her take on it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I add another wrinkle? The students in making the performance are also creating content that has intellectual property rights.  Aimee Bissonette discussed this with me in the last third of &#8220;It&#8217;s Elementary&#8221; (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/6kx6lb" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/6kx6lb</a>). Might be interesting to her take on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Johnson</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-13088</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html#comment-13088</guid>
		<description>Hi Scott,

I don’t see how the school could be held responsible for others videotaping the event. Making such an announcement might prove establish “due diligence” were the school to be sued by a music copyright holder, but I would think that a statement in the bulletin that “videotaping this event may be interpreted as a violation of copyright laws” gets at the same thing and leaves the responsibility for the legality of the  taping on the individual actually doing so.

To me, making a recording for personal use of a kids concert with no intention of reselling the materials is fair use.  And as you suggest, this needs to be balanced with the image the school has as well.

We are very much in need of more “user-centric” guidelines to the use of copyrighted materials. As it stand we are making scofflaws of the majority of our citizens.

Great post,

Doug
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Scott,</p>
<p>I don’t see how the school could be held responsible for others videotaping the event. Making such an announcement might prove establish “due diligence” were the school to be sued by a music copyright holder, but I would think that a statement in the bulletin that “videotaping this event may be interpreted as a violation of copyright laws” gets at the same thing and leaves the responsibility for the legality of the  taping on the individual actually doing so.</p>
<p>To me, making a recording for personal use of a kids concert with no intention of reselling the materials is fair use.  And as you suggest, this needs to be balanced with the image the school has as well.</p>
<p>We are very much in need of more “user-centric” guidelines to the use of copyrighted materials. As it stand we are making scofflaws of the majority of our citizens.</p>
<p>Great post,</p>
<p>Doug</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Shay</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-13089</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Shay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html#comment-13089</guid>
		<description>I should have put a &quot;crabby&quot; warning on my post yesterday--referring to vilification. I am a music teacher and have been misunderstood many times in my 20 years of teaching.

I personally would not be the person who tells people at a concert to shut off the video cameras.  I don&#039;t believe the school has a responsibility to be the keeper of the copyright.  I HAVE, on the other hand, warned against taping musicals (with a note in the program) because the contract is explicit that it can&#039;t be allowed.

I don&#039;t know what the motivation was for the person who said not to videotape, but I am guessing that it wasn&#039;t to deny parents the right to record the performance for posterity.  I would suggest that the person who gave the warning be contacted.  Perhaps there is a sensible reason (other than greed- as was suggested in a post) for not allowing it?  In past circumstances, I would have liked to be given that courtesy.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have put a &#8220;crabby&#8221; warning on my post yesterday&#8211;referring to vilification. I am a music teacher and have been misunderstood many times in my 20 years of teaching.</p>
<p>I personally would not be the person who tells people at a concert to shut off the video cameras.  I don&#8217;t believe the school has a responsibility to be the keeper of the copyright.  I HAVE, on the other hand, warned against taping musicals (with a note in the program) because the contract is explicit that it can&#8217;t be allowed.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what the motivation was for the person who said not to videotape, but I am guessing that it wasn&#8217;t to deny parents the right to record the performance for posterity.  I would suggest that the person who gave the warning be contacted.  Perhaps there is a sensible reason (other than greed- as was suggested in a post) for not allowing it?  In past circumstances, I would have liked to be given that courtesy.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-13090</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html#comment-13090</guid>
		<description>This is interesting. I wonder if the school had copyright clearance on the music they were singing. Perhaps they were covering for that.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting. I wonder if the school had copyright clearance on the music they were singing. Perhaps they were covering for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Baxter</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html/comment-page-1#comment-13091</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Baxter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/04/bad-pr-chorus-c.html#comment-13091</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s possible that they cribbed illegal copies of the music off some Internet or photocopied source, and didn&#039;t want to publicize it. Or, they&#039;re douchebags.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s possible that they cribbed illegal copies of the music off some Internet or photocopied source, and didn&#8217;t want to publicize it. Or, they&#8217;re douchebags.</p>
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