<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Calculator Wars</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html</link>
	<description>Technology, leadership, and the future of schools</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:00:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/comment-page-1#comment-13347</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/02/the-calculator.html#comment-13347</guid>
		<description>I believe that teachers should use the graphing calculators especially if it is part of the curriculum.  However, I don&#039;t believe that is the only way the students should learn.  The calculators should be used as a &quot;check&quot;.  Students should first learn how to solve the problem and then punch in the formula into the calculator to prove if their answer is right.  Using the calculator can be just as hard as solving a problem using paper and pencil.  I believe it is important for a student to use both methods.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that teachers should use the graphing calculators especially if it is part of the curriculum.  However, I don&#8217;t believe that is the only way the students should learn.  The calculators should be used as a &#8220;check&#8221;.  Students should first learn how to solve the problem and then punch in the formula into the calculator to prove if their answer is right.  Using the calculator can be just as hard as solving a problem using paper and pencil.  I believe it is important for a student to use both methods.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Dyer</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/comment-page-1#comment-13348</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/02/the-calculator.html#comment-13348</guid>
		<description>My quote above agrees with you: &quot;Students should also have experience with the basic paper-and-pencil techniques of calculus and be able to apply them when technological tools are unavailable or inappropriate.&quot;

Technological tools are for augmenting, not supplanting.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My quote above agrees with you: &#8220;Students should also have experience with the basic paper-and-pencil techniques of calculus and be able to apply them when technological tools are unavailable or inappropriate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Technological tools are for augmenting, not supplanting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/comment-page-1#comment-13349</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/02/the-calculator.html#comment-13349</guid>
		<description>I feel guilty reading this. I&#039;ve stayed away from calculators in my algebra class this year.

One reason for my &quot;tech resistance&quot; is because of supplies--we haven&#039;t had enough functional calculators to go around the school most of the year. (I recently got a set through Donor&#039;s Choose.)

A larger reason is that my students are drastically below level, so I&#039;ve been teaching basic addition and subtraction with my algebra. I want students to practice those skills at every opportunity and calculators make it too easy to not learn those skills. (Perhaps one reason why they haven&#039;t mastered second grade math skills when by the time they&#039;ve entered high school?)

It&#039;s not so much that I don&#039;t want to use the technology. I&#039;m just not sure how to allow parts of a tool and not the entirety of it. At what level do you bring in what tools? At what level do you expect students to be able to do something without the tools?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel guilty reading this. I&#8217;ve stayed away from calculators in my algebra class this year.</p>
<p>One reason for my &#8220;tech resistance&#8221; is because of supplies&#8211;we haven&#8217;t had enough functional calculators to go around the school most of the year. (I recently got a set through Donor&#8217;s Choose.)</p>
<p>A larger reason is that my students are drastically below level, so I&#8217;ve been teaching basic addition and subtraction with my algebra. I want students to practice those skills at every opportunity and calculators make it too easy to not learn those skills. (Perhaps one reason why they haven&#8217;t mastered second grade math skills when by the time they&#8217;ve entered high school?)</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not so much that I don&#8217;t want to use the technology. I&#8217;m just not sure how to allow parts of a tool and not the entirety of it. At what level do you bring in what tools? At what level do you expect students to be able to do something without the tools?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Dyer</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/comment-page-1#comment-13350</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/02/the-calculator.html#comment-13350</guid>
		<description>Glad to hear Donor&#039;s Choose came through for you!

Don&#039;t feel guilty -- graphing calculators are hard to integrate at earlier levels, and really only come into their own once the students are far enough to do actual graphing.

However, with the right software, you may still find the calculators useful as a miniature computer lab. If they&#039;re TIs, shop around their education site for something useful.

Just be sure to emphasize that the graphing calculator cannot be a substitute for knowing the mathematics. Something simple to try once they start graphing lines is to give a function that lands outside the standard window, and ask them to figure out what&#039;s going on.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to hear Donor&#8217;s Choose came through for you!</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t feel guilty &#8212; graphing calculators are hard to integrate at earlier levels, and really only come into their own once the students are far enough to do actual graphing.</p>
<p>However, with the right software, you may still find the calculators useful as a miniature computer lab. If they&#8217;re TIs, shop around their education site for something useful.</p>
<p>Just be sure to emphasize that the graphing calculator cannot be a substitute for knowing the mathematics. Something simple to try once they start graphing lines is to give a function that lands outside the standard window, and ask them to figure out what&#8217;s going on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott McLeod</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/comment-page-1#comment-13351</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/02/the-calculator.html#comment-13351</guid>
		<description>Jason, you say, &quot;Students should also have experience with the basic paper-and-pencil techniques of calculus and be able to apply them when technological tools are unavailable or inappropriate.&quot; When would this ever be the case?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, you say, &#8220;Students should also have experience with the basic paper-and-pencil techniques of calculus and be able to apply them when technological tools are unavailable or inappropriate.&#8221; When would this ever be the case?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lewshall</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/comment-page-1#comment-13352</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/02/the-calculator.html#comment-13352</guid>
		<description>Although I can&#039;t imagine someone sitting down on a project with paper and pencil to complete a calculus-based problem, I can beleive that it is a more tactile approach to understanding the concepts.  It is much like clicking the &quot;translate&quot; button on a document and claiming to read Spanish or French unless the understanding of input vs. output is achieved.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I can&#8217;t imagine someone sitting down on a project with paper and pencil to complete a calculus-based problem, I can beleive that it is a more tactile approach to understanding the concepts.  It is much like clicking the &#8220;translate&#8221; button on a document and claiming to read Spanish or French unless the understanding of input vs. output is achieved.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/comment-page-1#comment-13353</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/02/the-calculator.html#comment-13353</guid>
		<description>This is a great post.  We are currently in a curriculum review cycle in my school district.  I am on the committee and we are examining the use of calculators from elementary up to H.S..

We seem to have more discussion regarding elementary calculator use.  Everyday Mathematics, the curriculum our Elementary schools use, recommends calculators.  However, the calculator that they use is a TI-15.  Here is a link to it:  http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_ti15_explorer.html

The issue we are seeing is with adding, subtracting fractions and common denominators.  When these kids then get to algebra and are required to manipulate algebraic fractions to evaluate and solve, they have real trouble.  It might suggest that the TI-15 and it&#039;s &quot;fraction button&quot; contribute to very poor skill development.

For those of you unfamiliar with current calculators, there are fraction buttons on them and they spit out answers in fraction form.  So one enters 1/2 + 3/4 and it produces 5/4 or 1 and 1/4.  So students in early elementary school can &quot;skip&quot; skills that are necessary to be successful with algebra.

So my question is...are we making robots that can push the right buttons or are we making people that can solve problems?  It almost feels like we are indirectly creating an intelligence class system.  A class for people that push buttons and a class for people that can think freely?  Maybe that is already here...maybe not.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great post.  We are currently in a curriculum review cycle in my school district.  I am on the committee and we are examining the use of calculators from elementary up to H.S..</p>
<p>We seem to have more discussion regarding elementary calculator use.  Everyday Mathematics, the curriculum our Elementary schools use, recommends calculators.  However, the calculator that they use is a TI-15.  Here is a link to it:  <a href="http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_ti15_explorer.html" rel="nofollow">http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_ti15_explorer.html</a></p>
<p>The issue we are seeing is with adding, subtracting fractions and common denominators.  When these kids then get to algebra and are required to manipulate algebraic fractions to evaluate and solve, they have real trouble.  It might suggest that the TI-15 and it&#8217;s &#8220;fraction button&#8221; contribute to very poor skill development.</p>
<p>For those of you unfamiliar with current calculators, there are fraction buttons on them and they spit out answers in fraction form.  So one enters 1/2 + 3/4 and it produces 5/4 or 1 and 1/4.  So students in early elementary school can &#8220;skip&#8221; skills that are necessary to be successful with algebra.</p>
<p>So my question is&#8230;are we making robots that can push the right buttons or are we making people that can solve problems?  It almost feels like we are indirectly creating an intelligence class system.  A class for people that push buttons and a class for people that can think freely?  Maybe that is already here&#8230;maybe not.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Dyer</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/comment-page-1#comment-13354</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/02/the-calculator.html#comment-13354</guid>
		<description>Erik: Calculators can be used at lower levels, but it must be strongly emphasized that curriculum must include a significant non-calculator portion. Education has difficulty with mixed curriculum. Note the phonics/whole word wars -- is there anyone who does *both*?

I have given tests where a graphing calculator was required for the entire test. I have given tests with no calculator allowed. I have given tests where the first page has no calculator allowed and the rest of the test requires a calculator.

I have given these tests all to the same class in the same year.

To be honest, though, if I thought the faculty was using calculators as a crutch, I&#039;d be comfortable omitting calculators from the elementary level and only phasing them in at the middle school level.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik: Calculators can be used at lower levels, but it must be strongly emphasized that curriculum must include a significant non-calculator portion. Education has difficulty with mixed curriculum. Note the phonics/whole word wars &#8212; is there anyone who does *both*?</p>
<p>I have given tests where a graphing calculator was required for the entire test. I have given tests with no calculator allowed. I have given tests where the first page has no calculator allowed and the rest of the test requires a calculator.</p>
<p>I have given these tests all to the same class in the same year.</p>
<p>To be honest, though, if I thought the faculty was using calculators as a crutch, I&#8217;d be comfortable omitting calculators from the elementary level and only phasing them in at the middle school level.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Dyer</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/comment-page-1#comment-13355</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/02/the-calculator.html#comment-13355</guid>
		<description>Scott: Let me list some instances where a calculator won&#039;t help.

The most obvious instance is in a &quot;thinking problem&quot; where numbers are not involved. A lower level example might be: why is subtracting a negative number the same as adding the positive version? A higher level example might be: a pendulum can be started by either pushing it from a resting position, or lifting it up to a height and letting go. Which one is best represented by a sine curve, which by a cosine, and why?

An example the AP test uses is analyzing graphs with no numbers attached; they&#039;ll have a picture of the derivative of a function and ask the student to reconstruct the original. It&#039;s purely pictorial, meaning the student has to really understand the meaning of a derivative.

In some cases the calculator is dumb the student has to compensate. For example, the graph of a logarithm often gets fouled up on graphing calculators, because it approaches a vertical asymptote and the picture just cuts off.

Your manipulation might be purely symbolic; while there&#039;s software that handles symbolic manipulation (and also the TI-92, not allowed on the AP test) it only works if you know which way you want to go with the problem. You may be just trying to &quot;simplify&quot; in which case it&#039;s like a puzzle, so human intervention is required.

You may be wanting an *exact* answer, like knowing the answer isn&#039;t just around 1.299 but sqrt(3) * 3 / 4. Perhaps eventually the sqrt(3) cancels, but the calculator won&#039;t be smart enough and it gets some strange approximation like 0.754745 rather than the true answer of 3/4. (Calculators have more issues with rounding problems than you might realize -- computer scientists go through all sorts of convolutions in complex calculations to keep errors from cropping up.)

Finally, when the AP test has problems that absolutely require a graphing calculator, usually they are asking for higher level understanding, so it&#039;s sort of a hybrid problem. They&#039;re really not asking the student to integrate between 0 and 18 (because for the particular equation they picked there may be no method other than approximating) but they want the student to understand when the proper moment is to integrate from 0 to 18.

I will try to get up another example on my blog later.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott: Let me list some instances where a calculator won&#8217;t help.</p>
<p>The most obvious instance is in a &#8220;thinking problem&#8221; where numbers are not involved. A lower level example might be: why is subtracting a negative number the same as adding the positive version? A higher level example might be: a pendulum can be started by either pushing it from a resting position, or lifting it up to a height and letting go. Which one is best represented by a sine curve, which by a cosine, and why?</p>
<p>An example the AP test uses is analyzing graphs with no numbers attached; they&#8217;ll have a picture of the derivative of a function and ask the student to reconstruct the original. It&#8217;s purely pictorial, meaning the student has to really understand the meaning of a derivative.</p>
<p>In some cases the calculator is dumb the student has to compensate. For example, the graph of a logarithm often gets fouled up on graphing calculators, because it approaches a vertical asymptote and the picture just cuts off.</p>
<p>Your manipulation might be purely symbolic; while there&#8217;s software that handles symbolic manipulation (and also the TI-92, not allowed on the AP test) it only works if you know which way you want to go with the problem. You may be just trying to &#8220;simplify&#8221; in which case it&#8217;s like a puzzle, so human intervention is required.</p>
<p>You may be wanting an *exact* answer, like knowing the answer isn&#8217;t just around 1.299 but sqrt(3) * 3 / 4. Perhaps eventually the sqrt(3) cancels, but the calculator won&#8217;t be smart enough and it gets some strange approximation like 0.754745 rather than the true answer of 3/4. (Calculators have more issues with rounding problems than you might realize &#8212; computer scientists go through all sorts of convolutions in complex calculations to keep errors from cropping up.)</p>
<p>Finally, when the AP test has problems that absolutely require a graphing calculator, usually they are asking for higher level understanding, so it&#8217;s sort of a hybrid problem. They&#8217;re really not asking the student to integrate between 0 and 18 (because for the particular equation they picked there may be no method other than approximating) but they want the student to understand when the proper moment is to integrate from 0 to 18.</p>
<p>I will try to get up another example on my blog later.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maria H. Andersen</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/02/the-calculator.html/comment-page-1#comment-13356</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria H. Andersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2008/02/the-calculator.html#comment-13356</guid>
		<description>I thought you might get a kick of my calculator rant from last November: http://tcmtechnologyblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/marias-calculator-rant-and-throwing.html

This is MY problem with these calculators.  Why ARE graphing calculators so expensive?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought you might get a kick of my calculator rant from last November: <a href="http://tcmtechnologyblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/marias-calculator-rant-and-throwing.html" rel="nofollow">http://tcmtechnologyblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/marias-calculator-rant-and-throwing.html</a></p>
<p>This is MY problem with these calculators.  Why ARE graphing calculators so expensive?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

