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	<title>Comments on: Are you smarter than a fifth grader?</title>
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	<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html</link>
	<description>Technology, leadership, and the future of schools</description>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html/comment-page-1#comment-14856</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html#comment-14856</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, though I do think it is good the show is on the air, and hopefully it will remain popular for at least a year or so.  It raises awareness of these issues.  We can use it as an example when making a case to others just as you have done here.

The funny thing too is that we even train librarians this way, too, with their masters comp exams in which they have to memorize tons of terms, instead of testing them in context where they can find the answers (and finding info is the main thing a librarian is supposed to be good at).


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, though I do think it is good the show is on the air, and hopefully it will remain popular for at least a year or so.  It raises awareness of these issues.  We can use it as an example when making a case to others just as you have done here.</p>
<p>The funny thing too is that we even train librarians this way, too, with their masters comp exams in which they have to memorize tons of terms, instead of testing them in context where they can find the answers (and finding info is the main thing a librarian is supposed to be good at).</p>
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		<title>By: KDeRosa</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html/comment-page-1#comment-14857</link>
		<dc:creator>KDeRosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html#comment-14857</guid>
		<description>There is a critical flaw in this theory.

The problem is that our working memory is extremely limited and we must rely on information stored in long term memory to expand the limits of our working memory.  The only way to use long term memory is to memorize and think about what you&#039;ve memorized to create the deep structure necessary to think abstractly.  See many articles by Daniel Willingham and E.D. Hirsch on the need to know facts.

A related problem is that you need to know quite a bit about a subject to make use of the information use find with Google.

Ironically, those that already know a lot make the best use of the powerful search engines.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a critical flaw in this theory.</p>
<p>The problem is that our working memory is extremely limited and we must rely on information stored in long term memory to expand the limits of our working memory.  The only way to use long term memory is to memorize and think about what you&#8217;ve memorized to create the deep structure necessary to think abstractly.  See many articles by Daniel Willingham and E.D. Hirsch on the need to know facts.</p>
<p>A related problem is that you need to know quite a bit about a subject to make use of the information use find with Google.</p>
<p>Ironically, those that already know a lot make the best use of the powerful search engines.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Stager</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html/comment-page-1#comment-14858</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Stager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html#comment-14858</guid>
		<description>I wonder what would happen if you asked people to identify only 3 of the 20 ideas worth teaching/learning/knowing?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what would happen if you asked people to identify only 3 of the 20 ideas worth teaching/learning/knowing?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Mussell</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html/comment-page-1#comment-14859</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Mussell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html#comment-14859</guid>
		<description>I am smarter than a fifth grader - I had better be!!!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am smarter than a fifth grader &#8211; I had better be!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Chelsea</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html/comment-page-1#comment-14860</link>
		<dc:creator>Chelsea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html#comment-14860</guid>
		<description>I think that the show is quite eye opening. The question is, are these questions important, such as ones on measurement. I would say yes, but why don&#039;t we know these answers?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the show is quite eye opening. The question is, are these questions important, such as ones on measurement. I would say yes, but why don&#8217;t we know these answers?</p>
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		<title>By: Scott McLeod</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html/comment-page-1#comment-14861</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html#comment-14861</guid>
		<description>Ken, thanks for the comment. I always appreciate when folks leave me commentary that stretches my thinking or challenges my assumptions.

It&#039;s not that I think facts are unimportant. As you note, many facts are quite important and allow us to be better thinkers. That said, I will stand by my belief that many of the facts we are now asking students to retain in their heads are completely irrelevant to their adult lives. For example, I&#039;m quite convinced that I can look up who invented peanut butter any time I need to, without having any prior knowledge of the subject whatsoever, and find the correct answer. This is not a question about which I need to ever think abstractly or deeply. This is not a question for which I need to know &#039;quite a bit about&#039; the topic to answer correctly. It&#039;s simply a discrete historical factoid. Now, if you asked students today why they need to care about George Washington Carver, that&#039;s a whole different matter (and a much more appropriate, higher-order question). But that&#039;s not the case here. The teachers simply asked who invented peanut butter.

And, similarly, most of the other questions on this list also are easily discernible without any deep thinking or prior knowledge. I want teachers to be asking (and students to be answering) deeper, richer, more complex questions that take full advantage of kids&#039; brain capacity, not simplistic recall questions that have no perceived present or future relevance and whose answers will quickly and accordingly be forgotten.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, thanks for the comment. I always appreciate when folks leave me commentary that stretches my thinking or challenges my assumptions.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that I think facts are unimportant. As you note, many facts are quite important and allow us to be better thinkers. That said, I will stand by my belief that many of the facts we are now asking students to retain in their heads are completely irrelevant to their adult lives. For example, I&#8217;m quite convinced that I can look up who invented peanut butter any time I need to, without having any prior knowledge of the subject whatsoever, and find the correct answer. This is not a question about which I need to ever think abstractly or deeply. This is not a question for which I need to know &#8216;quite a bit about&#8217; the topic to answer correctly. It&#8217;s simply a discrete historical factoid. Now, if you asked students today why they need to care about George Washington Carver, that&#8217;s a whole different matter (and a much more appropriate, higher-order question). But that&#8217;s not the case here. The teachers simply asked who invented peanut butter.</p>
<p>And, similarly, most of the other questions on this list also are easily discernible without any deep thinking or prior knowledge. I want teachers to be asking (and students to be answering) deeper, richer, more complex questions that take full advantage of kids&#8217; brain capacity, not simplistic recall questions that have no perceived present or future relevance and whose answers will quickly and accordingly be forgotten.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html/comment-page-1#comment-14862</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html#comment-14862</guid>
		<description>I think the show is great, definitely good as an entertainment source.  I would however think that it may present a negative attitude towards education, if students see that as adults we do not remember what we have learned in grade school they may believe that this information is irrelevant.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the show is great, definitely good as an entertainment source.  I would however think that it may present a negative attitude towards education, if students see that as adults we do not remember what we have learned in grade school they may believe that this information is irrelevant.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html/comment-page-1#comment-14863</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html#comment-14863</guid>
		<description>Very interesting thread on epistemology.

I can say if the show has any value, it is for its entertaining quality. Most of us working class types get a hearty laugh at the expense of a member of the well-to-do with pricey degrees, Mercedes cars and such. It would be equally amusing to have obese corporate CEOs pitted against professional judo instructors in no-holds-barred fighting contests. What we have in this case is an unwieldy and obtuse comparison of apples to oranges, which deserves as much serious consideration as does phrenology or the rap music industry. As usual Fox is delivering bread and circuses to dilute the poisonous misinformation embedded in the philosophical DNA of their more serious programming.

I think it would reveal something if the young folks on the show were placed in the opposite lane, and asked adult questions such as how one would construct a cantilever bridge, handle a violent offender, counsel a narcotic addict, etc. Over time the adult mind must de-emphasize the knowledge of generalities in favour of the particulars of his/her occupation. I would rather a police officer be an expert in constitutional and criminal law than a Trivial Pursuit champion, just as I would expect a doctor to thoroughly understand biology but forgive him if he were a bit uninformed on baseball statistics or state capitals. As well, a fireman or an astrophysicist can be of contrasting value depending if they are in a quantum singularity or a burning house. Fifth grade educational factoids are not nearly as important as the activity of memorizing and comprehending them, which serves to condition the brain and enable it to process important particulars down the road.

I have always disliked the word &#039;smart&#039;, which at best would be considered a hybrid term grafted between intelligence and knowledge, yet perhaps signifying neither. Some people are more intelligent than knowledgeable or vice-versa, and the value of either depends entirely on context. It is like that word &#039;cool&#039; which in its colloquial usage has no defined value and is disconnected in its literal meaning from its context. Whereas &#039;cool&#039; is subjective and not literal, so too is &#039;smart.&#039; This is a game of reckless hypothetical assumptions which quickly degenerates into witless comedy, much like the current public educational systems in North America. Again, like our educational system, this show is more a sedative than a source of enlightenment.

I posit that this TV show is a cute novelty, but ultimately constitutes a form of epistemological sophistry. I would add also that fifth grade teachers do not constitute the most intellectual members of our society and it is quite presumptuous for them to be judging intelligence in others. They do use &#039;teacher&#039;s editions&#039;, after all, and are more experts in the art of watching and tolerating children than anything. The show is an indicator of what the medium of television has necrotized into, and why a person who respects the human intellect should avoid watching it except with a critical eye. I am unsure why I am even commenting on this topic, since I find the general cultural and intellectual ethos of American society more narcissistic and ignorant than any other society in recorded history. Why the television networks choose to question who is smarter than who in a nation full of such laughable imbeciles is totally beyond my imagination or comprehension. However, I confess that I do enjoy the guilty pleasure of mocking simpletons and finding humour in their quixotic foibles, and to that end I enjoy watching the show.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting thread on epistemology.</p>
<p>I can say if the show has any value, it is for its entertaining quality. Most of us working class types get a hearty laugh at the expense of a member of the well-to-do with pricey degrees, Mercedes cars and such. It would be equally amusing to have obese corporate CEOs pitted against professional judo instructors in no-holds-barred fighting contests. What we have in this case is an unwieldy and obtuse comparison of apples to oranges, which deserves as much serious consideration as does phrenology or the rap music industry. As usual Fox is delivering bread and circuses to dilute the poisonous misinformation embedded in the philosophical DNA of their more serious programming.</p>
<p>I think it would reveal something if the young folks on the show were placed in the opposite lane, and asked adult questions such as how one would construct a cantilever bridge, handle a violent offender, counsel a narcotic addict, etc. Over time the adult mind must de-emphasize the knowledge of generalities in favour of the particulars of his/her occupation. I would rather a police officer be an expert in constitutional and criminal law than a Trivial Pursuit champion, just as I would expect a doctor to thoroughly understand biology but forgive him if he were a bit uninformed on baseball statistics or state capitals. As well, a fireman or an astrophysicist can be of contrasting value depending if they are in a quantum singularity or a burning house. Fifth grade educational factoids are not nearly as important as the activity of memorizing and comprehending them, which serves to condition the brain and enable it to process important particulars down the road.</p>
<p>I have always disliked the word &#8216;smart&#8217;, which at best would be considered a hybrid term grafted between intelligence and knowledge, yet perhaps signifying neither. Some people are more intelligent than knowledgeable or vice-versa, and the value of either depends entirely on context. It is like that word &#8216;cool&#8217; which in its colloquial usage has no defined value and is disconnected in its literal meaning from its context. Whereas &#8216;cool&#8217; is subjective and not literal, so too is &#8216;smart.&#8217; This is a game of reckless hypothetical assumptions which quickly degenerates into witless comedy, much like the current public educational systems in North America. Again, like our educational system, this show is more a sedative than a source of enlightenment.</p>
<p>I posit that this TV show is a cute novelty, but ultimately constitutes a form of epistemological sophistry. I would add also that fifth grade teachers do not constitute the most intellectual members of our society and it is quite presumptuous for them to be judging intelligence in others. They do use &#8216;teacher&#8217;s editions&#8217;, after all, and are more experts in the art of watching and tolerating children than anything. The show is an indicator of what the medium of television has necrotized into, and why a person who respects the human intellect should avoid watching it except with a critical eye. I am unsure why I am even commenting on this topic, since I find the general cultural and intellectual ethos of American society more narcissistic and ignorant than any other society in recorded history. Why the television networks choose to question who is smarter than who in a nation full of such laughable imbeciles is totally beyond my imagination or comprehension. However, I confess that I do enjoy the guilty pleasure of mocking simpletons and finding humour in their quixotic foibles, and to that end I enjoy watching the show.</p>
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		<title>By: J.D. Williams</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html/comment-page-1#comment-14864</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D. Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html#comment-14864</guid>
		<description>I text message Google a few times a week for different information. I&#039;ve told my students about tools like this, but it is against school policy to have cell phones at school. I know if I actually showed them (or had them try it out on their own) it would be when admins would walk through my classroom.

I was once told a story about Albert Einstein (not sure if it&#039;s true or not though) saying that he didn&#039;t know his own phone number. When he was asked why he said &quot;Why should I remember it? I can just look it up.&quot;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I text message Google a few times a week for different information. I&#8217;ve told my students about tools like this, but it is against school policy to have cell phones at school. I know if I actually showed them (or had them try it out on their own) it would be when admins would walk through my classroom.</p>
<p>I was once told a story about Albert Einstein (not sure if it&#8217;s true or not though) saying that he didn&#8217;t know his own phone number. When he was asked why he said &#8220;Why should I remember it? I can just look it up.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lehmann</title>
		<link>http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html/comment-page-1#comment-14865</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lehmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annahein.com/2007/03/are_you_smarter.html#comment-14865</guid>
		<description>Interestingly, more and more, I come back to the thought that there&#039;s really only one set of content that I think every American student should have committed to memory, and interestingly, it&#039;s not anything currently tested.

I think all American students need to know how their government works. It&#039;s amazing to me how many people don&#039;t have a fundamental understanding of our government and how it is structured.

Want a high-stakes test for high school graduation? All students should have to sing the old &quot;Schoolhouse Rock&quot; government jingles, especially &quot;How a Bill Becomes a Law.&quot;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interestingly, more and more, I come back to the thought that there&#8217;s really only one set of content that I think every American student should have committed to memory, and interestingly, it&#8217;s not anything currently tested.</p>
<p>I think all American students need to know how their government works. It&#8217;s amazing to me how many people don&#8217;t have a fundamental understanding of our government and how it is structured.</p>
<p>Want a high-stakes test for high school graduation? All students should have to sing the old &#8220;Schoolhouse Rock&#8221; government jingles, especially &#8220;How a Bill Becomes a Law.&#8221;</p>
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